hey greg, can you give me the rundown? whats best for what conditions?
I’ve never considered them to be that different. They are designed to do, basicly, the same thing which is to create drive and lift. My personal feelings are that the surfboard industry has had a difficult time in letting go of the vee which is the reason doubles lasted as long as they have. In small wave high performance three fins there is no need for vee at all. In fact there have been many articles written that have stated that boards with single concave out perform those with doubles in medium size surf and smaller. But this industry has moved along very conservative lines in recent years which has brought us to where we are today, that being that single concaves are probably more popular than doubles, finally. I personally have been riding single concave since the early 70’s and have a long standing preference.
I’m riding a 6’8" (11x19.5x14x2 3/8 round pin) with a single concave that starts 10 inches from the nose and fades out under the back fin to flat out the tail. After only a few surfs, I think the board rides like an edgy snowboard always wanting to be up on one rail or the other (not that there’s anything wrong with that) rather than the more neutral feel of a full length flat bottom or flat to vee. Is this feel typical of concave bottoms as opposed to flat bottoms? Do any of you swear by full length flat bottoms? Many of my best boards have been flat throughout. Thanks.
I want to believe vee is slowing my riders down and I was trying to convince them single to double concave is the way to more air time! But some of them were not progressing like they were with the slight vee between the front fins with double concave in the vee. This is in hollow beachbreak conditions. I see the Rusty’s and Al Merricks with single concave but they usually are 13"-13.5" tails pulled in to 4-5" squashtails. What about 14-15" tails as in modern fish templates with 19+" wide points? I get comments about my Vee from factory guys all the time but I outsurf all of them on long or shortboards! On a retro fish i use single concave and no vee and shapers on this forum poo-poo’ed that bottom even though it rips. I understand adding vee takes another 5 minutes or so to add but I’ve not been able to find the magik shape without vee in the mix ‘expecially’ on the wider fishy style shapes. I wanna change but I’m gonna need a 12 step Vee program!!! I’ve got a early Longboard issue where Lance Collins talks about shaping Joey Hawkins(early 90’s) high performance light longboards. Hawkins was the most radical longboard rider EVER, beating everyone consistantly, (maybe Russ K could keep up!)and his tails were Vee’d up almost to the top deck and no concave at all on the bottom, this was about '93 or so, the guy ripped. This style of longboarding isn’t currently popular now but the design was to compliment a radical shortboard stle on a 9’0" and i personally witnessed it. So to Vee or not to Vee that is the question…
To v or not to v…on a thruster setup, to me, its one or the other. Any kind of substantial v (1/4 inch plus) has to be kept on edge to function. A thruster has to be kept on edge to function. Put them together and I’ve always found 2+2=3. I also don’t think they are worth the effort on a board narrower than 18 inches. On a wider single fin or even a twin, a deep v infront of the fin(s) can give a whole bunch of drive and acceleration when you roll them up on a pannel as McTavish and MR showed. I’m not sure that the girly-man contours on the bottoms of most new boards actually do anything that the average joe in average surf can even feel. On glassy, lined up, head high waves, it might be a different story. In a double blind test, I’d bet even Kelly Slater couldn’t tell the difference between a flat bottom and a 1/8 inch or less single to double concave bottom.
I am in agreement with your views. There are some groms that are strikingly faster on my local beachbreak waves, taking off like a bat out of hell, but they are ultralight weight with 1.5 layers of 4 oz on deck. Is super lightness more important than concaves in board speed/manuverability? What do you guys think?
“Vee or not to Vee that is the question.” Thats the right problem, but the wrong question. Why dont you invest some time and effort into building boards that incorporate the best of both worlds? Maximum speed and maneuverability. A board that can bend into whatever vee whenever needed, and then snap back to concave or flat for all-out speed. “Is super lightness more important than concaves in board speed/manuverability?” Lighter is always quicker and usually the fastest… but only to a point. In longer, bigger, powerful waves, increases in poundage provide the necessary inertia and dampening to negotiate large ledges, chop, boils, etc. Your board is worthless if it`s fast as greased lightning, but without an equal measure of control.
Smoke another one Adrien.
TS: dont pretend to know me- Im not involved with dope in any form. Such insinuations are an unfortunate reflection of your character, not mine. Do you have any constructive criticism or insight to offer Surfhungry`s question?
Alright Captain Obvious. You’re totally right. You’re voice in that message was so thinly profound that it reminded me of my own thoughts while stoned. Plainly obvious and meaningless. Hence the phrase…smoke another…Sorry if that offended you but you should try it if you haven’t and if you have and didn’t like it, give it another chance. It can’t be worse than sniffing resin. I’ve digressed. Don’t you think if it were sooooo easy to incorporate the best parts of every design element to make the “magic board”, every shaper would follow that recipe to a tee? Isn’t it funny that you scrolled all the way down to see if anyone responded to you? It’s equally funny I looked to see if you responded to my ribbing. I’m also sure you’ve never heard “YO ADRIEN or Adrian”. Do you relly want to hear my thoughts on v and concave? TS