Down rails and flat bottoms

General Discussion
1

Maybe you guys could give me your thoughts...

Whats the whole deal regarding dropped rails? and I'm talking about longboards here... specificaly dropped rails in the nose. Sure, I know they originated from guys like Tom Morey, Mike Hynson, and Mike Diffenderfer, but why?  I know a lower rail resists being banked, making the board more stable, but as the rails drop to say..70/40 does it make the hull speed increase? Just to complicate this question those kinds of rails are usually used on flatter bottomed boards I guess because of having to dome the deck?

My first flat bottomed board with dropped rails in the nose was my 10ft Ultra Flight Penetrator. There was almost zero nose rocker and hard dropped rails up front. In all fairness to John he did warn me the board would only go well in clean A1 surf conditions, not at my mediocre local beach break. I couldn't ride it to save my life! I kept catching a rail on take-off and hitting a bit of bump would throw me headfirst off the thing. I was very disappointed, especially as I'd really been inspired by John's chat about the airplane wing foil, and how the nose would rise because of the same principles as flight... thus supporting the weight of the rider on the nose. Yeh.. I know....

It was only later when I got turned on by Tom Wegener to his Suction vs Tension theories that I really understood the basic ingredients of noserider rails and hips aft, but that's a different topic.

I just can't see how that kind of rail would be beneficial in the nose? Velzy always said you needed a nice round soft rail up front to keep you up the face. Surely the dropped rail is going to drop you down the face? I understand the benefits of harder rails in the tail (unless it's a 'one trick pony' noserider shape) in which case they could be upturned in the tail, but in the nose? and if the bottom is flat is it quicker through the water? I remember reading an article on the Webber Performer once that said "the flat bottom and wide plan shape gave it bizzarre mush skating ability". I believed that, and took that as gospel. it was only after trying a 10 foot Martinson Predator step-deck that changed my mind. It wouldn't catch sh*t compared to my old school displacement hulls. I now believe the displacement hull to be quicker... but is that just because the rolled bottom means 50-50 rails equating to a flatter rocker equalling more speed? Aaarrrgghh  !!!  

I can see while I write this that no one aspect of board design can be isolated and analysed individualy can it? Everything is linked together.

I've probably confused the issue with two different questions. Is a flat bottom easier to paddle/catch waves/faster, or is the dispacement hull quicker?

and secondly, why the dropped rails in the nose?

I'd really like to hear from you shapers out there as it's something I want to get straight in my head!  I don't know how you guys sleep at night!!

Thanks guys.

2

A bloke named John Otten told me at one of the earlier pro longboard contests, the nose should be like a bow, made sense to me, push the water up, hey I entered 2 Australian longboard titles , won them both , step lightly, like a cat on acid.

3

When you say "like a bow" Harris do you mean heavy nose-rocker? I find a little rocker and round soft rails best on a longboard nose myself, and no concave.. but maybe a little belly or roll up there for penetration. Also that way you can steer from the tip and climb or drop whilst on the nose. This would only be on a noserider obviously.

 

4

I had a Penetrator (regular version) in late 60’s.  Nose rode shockingly well.  Could not only climb and drop but almost cut back from about one foot back from hanging 5.  Could be a bit sketchy turning from tail though, sort of liked to spin out unless you were very careful to get the edge set in there.

5

No not rocker, just very soft , like a bulb to almost an edge on the deck, you can see it push the water up and slow it down , just my experience about that. I do like some concave there.

6

Thanks guys. I didn't realize when I ordered the Peck Penetrator they came in different models. It's the only board I've ever ordered from the states, and I got it from the Longboard House in Indiatlantic (I think?) The guys were really great about everything but when it finally arrived and I found it was the thinned out Island foiled model I was disappointed. The old original version had rounder C shaped rails and softer rails in the tail I think.

I really regret selling it. It was signed with love by John. Now they're made by Dennis Ryder again, and although technically better shaped, it wouldn't be the same as a signed one. Sold it to the same guy who bought my 11ft Skip Frye, back when hardly anyone knew who Skip was over here.

Now I'm feeling really depressed!!  Bummer..

" I must get wise somehow".

7

Andy, I don't know if I can answer your questions about down rails, because down rails on short boards (like Hynson's in the 70's) are a far cry from something like a Penetrator, or wing nose longboard.

But if you are intersted in discussing the Penetrator, along with some Pics of DR's boards, you might check this thread.

http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/my-new-penatrator

 

Mike