Down Rails

Just some thoughts and observations, like to hear what others think.  I know rail design is subjective, and works in conjunction with all the other design features, so no hard and fast rules.  But as a generalization, down rails seem to be characterized as giving good release, and planing up on the surface quicker or higher than soft rails, which are characterized more by gripping the wave (as in the famous spoon in the faucet test).

I think most modern boards have down rails in the tail, usuall with a pretty crisp edge, back in the fin area.  While this is good for release, which seems logical in the tail, it also strikes me that in a turn, it has the opposite effect.  When you jam a turn off the tail, the hard rail digs in and acts almost like a fin, biting into the wave and leveraging you forward through the turn.  A softer rail back there, like on the old classic longboards, does not react the same, as the rounder rail won’t grab.

I have a board with down rails all the way, front to back.  I really really like the board, its a longboard but with a pulled in nose and tail, not a noserider type longboard.  The rails have a bit of a soft edge up front, still definitely down rails, but with a little round tuck under.  But hard edge in the tail as normal.  Anyway, I have noticed at certain points on a wave, like when I’m high on the face, and feeling like maybe the lip is going to pitch, and I re-direct back down (not talking about a cutback, but just moving down the face), I sometimes dig a rail.  Thips never happens on my boards with round rails or pinched rails up front.  So again, the down rail, rather than releasing, in this instance is doing the opposite, digging in.

Obviously there is operator-error to blame here, because when I step back and move my center of gravity more toward the tail, it doesn’t dig the rail like that.  But I’m just observing how the release of the down rail can also function opposite.

And one more time I sometimes notice this, on a late take off on a hollow wave.  The board doesn’t have much nose rocker, so here again all the factors work together for better or worse.  But this is a spot I sometimes dig a rail up toward the front of the board.  Not pearling exactly, but the effect is pretty similar.  Dig a nose rail at takeoff, and the story ends as quickly as it began!


I can’t really comment yet, but I can edit my original post  ;^)

I’m not saying down rails, or a board with down rails, is good or bad. Just another design element to consider. What I’m saying is that you have to think of down rails in two ways, release and grab. They do both. and by extension, soft rails do both too, only they tend to grab onto the wave face better in trim, but release or slip more in a hard turn.


mattwho - no problem, just an observation, I’ve seen it happen to others too, with similar rails.  I love the board I was describing, you just have to ride it accordingly.  Just making the comment that hard rails release, but hard rails catch too.

There was a Mark Richards shape circa 1983 down at the local surf shop for a while. It had hard rails, or down rails as you call them, along the entire length of the board. MR is a highly respected surfer/shaper to say the least, so if he was trying it with his production boards then there must be something to it. 

Excellent probe!

Can’t wait till you can chime in!

Prior to my point.

If I understand correctly.

You are having trouble in the forward rail?

as in “when I step back and move my center of gravity more toward the tail, it doesn’t dig the rail like that.”

So what I am about here is this (seeing as your still silenced).

I have much more on this subject.

But I feel your trouble is too hard an edge forward.

Tucked but forgiving.

  • nice LB outline (no catch nose,eh)

Aloha and please keep the Stoke!

Gerry Lopez once commented that the down rails that Mike Hynson was noted for was the most significant design advancement in his era.

Sometimes you really have to consider the entire design before jumping to any conclusions.  Analyzing a single component by itself can throw you off course. 

In this case, a relatively simple (and minor) adjustment in the tail end of the board… specifically, boosted tail rocker and vee might allow the rider to free the forward edges and prevent them from catching.  Being able to step back on the tail rocker and ‘bank’ on one of the vee panels can really lift the opposite forward rail.

Just for kicks, try shaping a scale model and ‘finger surfing’ it to see how the tail end can affect the front of the design.  A minor increase in tail rocker can result in a lot of forward lift when pressure is applied to the tail.

Flat bottomed/down railed designs can be really fast but can also be particularly sensitive to minor rocker mistakes. 

Let me say first of that I am a proponent of the “low rail”.  I rode the old beak nosed down railed boards of the 70’s.  they were fast but lacked maneuverability.  Diff and Hynson were the main tutors.  Although Morley-popes crew probably used the down rail before them.  The low rail is a compromise and refinement.

In the late/mid 1950’s, the tail end of the balsa era, (though few of us knew it,at the time) the typical Velzy&Jacobs Pig had what is today described as a soft low rail.      Most were 60/40, some were as much as 65/35.     Frankly, the board that I made my most progress on as a surfer, was on a borrowed 9’ 0’’ x 20’’ Velzy&Jacobs Pig at WindanSea, with that soft low rail.    The new price of that board, in the spring of 1958, was $75 dollars.

That was a high tech bargain Bill.