I have been surfing longboard for some time now here on the outer banks of North Carolina (OBX) and am looking to have a fish made for me here by a local shaper/glasses. A mutual friend of ours just got a 6-0 quad fish and loves it, so I have now have the bug to put a fish in my quiver (which is a 9-0 Surftech Pearson arrow formula f-1 and a 9-6 Surftech Donald Takayama in the pink.). I have been reading up on the differences between twins & quads, keels & regular fins, retro & hybrid fish (a lot of it here on this site, which is extremely informative - thanx to all who contribute their experience & wisdom on here!). I love riding my longboards, but there are those times where I need something else, mostly due to the fast breaking as well as hollow dump found here in our local beach breaks. I guess I’m looking for a board that will get me into & thru the steep takeoffs, fast breaks even when it’s sub-head high waves being surfed here. The fishmosly used here seem to be more of the hybrid designs with more of a continuous rounding rail, not like the original fish that carried it’s widest point 3/4 way up the board & straightened out the rail back towards the tail. It seems to me that the original design would be faster sacrificing the turning ease for speed. And the keels sound like they would hold the board in better than standard fins. I’m 5-8, 200 lbs right now, and an intermediate surfer. So…anyone have any advice on what I’m gunning for here with my old guy short board quest here?and, as always, the comments are much appreciated ( yeah…even the harsh ones…).
The retro fish’s flat rocker isn’t ideal for steep takeoffs and tight, hollow dumping surf… particularly for an intermediate surfer. That’s probably why you don’t see many around your local. Something with a bit more entry rocker would suit your surf better, and there are tons of these “modern fish” designs around.
Your friend’s board sounds about right. At your weight, and coming off a longboard, 6’0 or 6’2 would fit you fine if you keep it thicker and wider. Your local shaper probably knows best, and should be able to recommend a proven design.
Qauds are more typical on these modernized versions, but don’t be afraid to go with keels. Fin placement is critical, however.
If you have the cash get a modern and a retro fish. You are correct in thinking that for down the line flat rocker straight rail will be a blast.
NJ is right about the steep drops on a retro fish. There would be a learning curve on mastering the take off and drop. To surf a fish keep a low center of gravity
Ok, I respectfully have to agree and disagree with both nj_surfer and artz… It’s true that a low rocker Lis type keel fish is difficult to ride in steep hollow waves… and that is true if you ride it standing up… those fish were originally designed as kneeboards, a 5’4"-5’10" Lis style keel fish is awesome for getting barreled kneelo style, hell I sometimes ride a big 6’ Lis style fish standing up but if it starts getting a little too gnarly I just change to kneelo style! Not much turning kneelo style on a 6’ fish though, would love to build one around 5’4" to ride exclusively as a kneeboard.
Hybrids and new fish are cool, I have heard a lot of good stuff about Pavel’s Speed Dailers and Mandala quads. If not a fish, why not consider a single fin, maybe a well designed 6’4" diamond tail can be good for small mushy days and excel in overhead beach break barrels??? Maybe something similar to the Morning of the Earth Bali board???
Just my 2 cents…
I have to agree with Tony,too, although I can’t ride mine in pitching hollow surf at this point in my life. The guys built those boards to knee and eventually surf pitching hollow reef brakes in San Diego. They were ridden by talented surfers though.
OBX,
At 5-8 and 200 lbs you are either built like an NFL halfback or need to lose some weight. How’s your fitness? Are you fit enough to get off the Surftech and jump on a six foot board? If not I think you should take a look at some of the mid length boards. 6-8 to 7-6. Something like that. Mike
Well…spot on, rooster. I AM overweight & workin’ t’get it back down to 185. Presently discussing the 7s X2 core Superfish models with Steve at The Pit Surf Shop here in town. He thinks the 7-3 Superfish II would be a better suited board due to my being a long boarder for the most part, but I am leaning more so towards a 6-8 Superfish XL that he has in the shop. They’re both X2 core, which is pretty identical to the Surftech Tufflite cores that I now ride. Any comments with any of this, guys/gals?
Hi OBX,
I’m not a fan of Chineese manufactured surfboards. I think you should work with a local shaper or build your own. Plenty of help around here, too. The 7s look really bad to me. Beveled rails and such. None I would call a fish. Surftechs and Tufflite a bit better. Kind of like going to the car lot and picking out your favorite color Toyota Corolla, though. Not built FOR you and your goals. Good luck with the board and the weight. Mike
…hello man, you first say to the guy that the old fishes or retro stuff are not convenient for standing up on hollow waves, then suggest to buy a Mandala or like that!, those have nothing modern, except that a lot have 4 fins…
Not directly suggesting a Mandala or a Pavel, they are costly and maybe an intermediate surfer who rides pop outs won’t want to pay for that type of board. But I agree a local shaper is the way to go. Those Speed Dailers are not retro: more pulled in nose and tail, less than 12" tip to tip in the crack, complex bottoms, easier to surf vertically… Never had one original but a few years ago I got a custom from a local shaper inspired in the Pavel Speed Dialer. Went great in head high to overhead reef barrels and I could easily turn it off the lip and lay a sharp cutback. The ideal situation would be to find a shaper who can see you surf and then take your favorite board as a starting point reference.
Hmmm? If those original fish had a “twin pin” for helping to keep the flippers out of the water then what other purpose did they serve: give some bite to the tail in tubes and/or reduce tail surface area to reduce planing area and have more control on fast waves???
I’m about your height and weight. I haven’t spent much time on longboards but I’ve spent a lot of time on fishes of various types and on midlength boards of various types.
I like fishes, but they’re not that user friendly in pitching conditions. As the guys above say, you can ride them prone or as kneeboards but that’s a little different. If I was using a fish for those conditions I would actually prefer a super short length, like 5-6 or 5-4 and I’d plan on riding it off the tail to get it past the pitching drop. From your own description of your abilities it doesn’t look like you’re ready for that at this point so that’s out.
For fast pitching beachbreak conditions length can become an impediment, especially when there’s also a flat rocker involved. Keel fishes aren’t that great in such conditions, either, particularly when going backside. If you’re going to go with a midlength in such conditions - and especially given your relative lack of paddling ability and wave judgement - you’ll make more drops on a board with a little rocker and more than 2 fins. Even a twinzer, which is a twinnie variant - is more stable and holds better when going backside than a keel setup.
IMO, a modern egg type shape for someone in your position is the better bet. A moderate rocker and a 2+1 or quad setup will get you into and stick more of those pitching waves and will be easier to turn and motivate, particularly when conditions aren’t real clean. At your weight you could easily make a 6-6 length work for you. If you’re seeking the soul factor then skip the Surftech BS altogether and get a custom with a little flatter rocker and a nice glass job and some custom fins. You can get a great custom for about the same price as the imported Surftechs. As for hi-tech construction, there are some east coast board builders whose work positively smokes what Surftech does, a couple of them participating here on Sways.
I guess I'm looking for a board that will get me into & thru the steep takeoffs, fast breaks even when it's sub-head high waves being surfed here.
I love my fish to death, i ride it almost all the time. However, with hollow pitching waves it's a tricky board. If you can get in/up early, that's cool, it'll fly down the line faster than you've gone before. BUT, if you don't get in early or angled enough, you'll get caught in the lip. It's all a matter of what you're comfortable with. Head high and under, well, definately its no major problem, but once it gets overhead and pitching, it gets a little arkward IMHO, and when there's a lot more water moving around, paddling a short wide board can be tiring, as odd as that sounds.
I think you'd be better with a longer shortboard hybrid for those hollow waves, if you get lots of them. However, if those waves only come 25% of the time, the other 75% of the time you could surf the fish and get used to it, and you might find you like it so much, you'll try it out when it gets a little hollower.
All up to you.
The original idea of the swallow tails on the fish was to keep the fins out of the water. However they also created other benefits. the deep cut gives you in essence two pin tails to work from add the keel style fin and you have plenty of holding power. Fish demand low center of gravity surfing.
Watch films of surfers from the 1970s riding Fish Low and centered. There are waves in San Diego that back in the day were not ridden by most stand up surfers. Some of the most Talented like Chris O'Rourke could put on a show and there were a few that used Fish standing and knee boarding. They also put on a great performances.
Go see Tim Nolte. www.timnoltes**urfboards.com/
Ask him to make you your next board- He’ll make one for you, not try to sell you whatever he has on the floor (with all due respect to shop guys- Big Jim and Pete at Whalebone have steered me right a couple times).
Talk to him about what you want and your experience and ability. Be honest. Tim will make you whatever you want, in just about any tech or construction you can think of. EPS/Epoxy, Poly, Vac-bagged Bamboo or Corecell veneers, Gloss, polish, whatever. Everything is done in-house, too. Meticulous construction and glasswork.
But listen to Tim when he suggests something. He knows OBX surf and boards better than damn near anyone.
-Charlie
Two other options would be stopping at Gale Force Glassing in the industrial strip in Kill Devil Hills and seeing Rascoe. There are a lot of good boards that come out of there. The other one is drive down to Scott Busbey at Natural Art Surf Shop in Buxton. He is a real craftsman and has always made me a great board.
Listen to your unclecharlie. Best idea yet. Mike
consider a Mark Richards Supertwin shape - faster then hell, paddles great, and a hella fun ride for small to well overhead, mushy to hollow…
I’ve actually been talking’ with Riomar (Rohde) to shape (and glass) me a 6-6 or 6-8 quad fish. He shaped a 6-0 for a mutual friend of ours (Robbie Snyder) & Robbie is stoked with the ride of the fish.
If you have the opertunity check out a Hynson Black Knight Fish. Mike Hynson knows a thing or two about the design. Get whoever is going to shape the board, to also check out the Hynson you can't go wrong with looking over and taking some cues from a master.
[img_assist|nid=1067599|title=6'8x21x2.75|desc=|link=none|align=center|width=0|height=0] [quote="$1"]
I have been surfing longboard for some time now here on the outer banks of North Carolina (OBX) and am looking to have a fish made for me here by a local shaper/glasses. A mutual friend of ours just got a 6-0 quad fish and loves it, so I have now have the bug to put a fish in my quiver (which is a 9-0 Surftech Pearson arrow formula f-1 and a 9-6 Surftech Donald Takayama in the pink.). I have been reading up on the differences between twins & quads, keels & regular fins, retro & hybrid fish (a lot of it here on this site, which is extremely informative - thanx to all who contribute their experience & wisdom on here!). I love riding my longboards, but there are those times where I need something else, mostly due to the fast breaking as well as hollow dump found here in our local beach breaks. I guess I'm looking for a board that will get me into & thru the steep takeoffs, fast breaks even when it's sub-head high waves being surfed here. The fishmosly used here seem to be more of the hybrid designs with more of a continuous rounding rail, not like the original fish that carried it's widest point 3/4 way up the board & straightened out the rail back towards the tail. It seems to me that the original design would be faster sacrificing the turning ease for speed. And the keels sound like they would hold the board in better than standard fins. I'm 5-8, 200 lbs right now, and an intermediate surfer. So....anyone have any advice on what I'm gunning for here with my old guy short board quest here?and, as always, the comments are much appreciated ( yeah...even the harsh ones....).
[/quote]
I'm taller than you but weigh a little more and have a 6'8x21x2.75 fish that would be right up your alley. It has a rounded but not completely round nose with your old school line, like the original fish that carried it's widest point 3/4 way up the board & straightened out the rail back towards the tail, but with modern concaves(Single,Double to a vee) and a double wing swallow tail. It's a tri/quad but I only ride it as a quad. It has to be one of the most stable platforms Ive ever surfed. Ive ridden this board in mush to steep walls and it has never let me down. Round nose gets you into the wave sooner and the cut down tail provides for plenty of performance. Maybe a shape you might consider.