There's lots of quick release mechanisms used by kite companies these days that could be adapted by a legrope company.
Is there the demand?
Anyone sued a legrope company for cause of drowning?
.
I guess that would be the solution, assuming it’s efficient, reliable … and manufactured !
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=wMQbAAAAEBAJ&dq=5643028
does going leashless also included the standups too?we all wish for the old days ect… greg l had some good comments at the end of the day you got to use your smarts i like going leashless on long boards but only until it starts to get chest high then i switch boards/leashed and find better waves.taught my daughter how to surf when she was about 5 leashless but first it was to the [3 or 4 ]pool to have fun swim laps floating on back ect… i would play with her bobing under water in the shallows holding our breath then progressed to the deeper sides slowly eventually she hold on to my back then i would dive down with her in the 12 foot zone telling her to tap me on the shoulder anytime she wanted to come up eventually she could dive down the deep end to get the quarter i would toss in the whole time preparing her for the ocean,she doesnot surf much anymore my passion not hers but when she does still leashless she s got the skills but hates the crowds those were fun times for me and i realize now its not so easy to dive deep anymore in the ocean a mans got to know his llimitations, the worlds changing and as much as we hate to admit it weve changed with her hold on to your hats keep the memories close were not in kansas any more aloha…
[quote="$1"]
There's lots of quick release mechanisms used by kite companies these days that could be adapted by a legrope company.
Is there the demand?
Anyone sued a legrope company for cause of drowning?
[/quote]
My company makes components for several leash manufacturers. Yes, we have had lawsuits against us in the past. Unfortunately, surfing has hazards. The last time a relatively inexperienced surfer went out solo on his longboard in an early spring swell in New Jersey. A few hours later his board was found washed up on the beach with a broken leash. The families attorney brought the suit saying that his safety device had failed which caused his drowning.
There were no witnesses. Upon inspection of his surfboard there was a 5" diameter pressure ding (right about forehead level while prone paddling). The most likely scenario is that his board knocked him out as he was paddling out through the surf. If you are unconscieous, you're going to act like a big sea anchor. The surf is going to pull on your board and your leash will ultimately fail. Typically, the leashes snap in the range of 130-140 pounds dead pull for a .270" cord. The case never went to trial. The plaintiff's attorney suspended his suit as soon as he got the only company involved with liability insurance to settle. That happened to be my company and the settlement was forced on us by our insurance carrier, who promptly excluded surf related products from our policy due to their inability to determine the risk. We have had to carry a supplimental policy to the tune of $10K per year.
Leashes are not safety devices. My other sport is offshore sailboat racing. We are required to wear a Coast Guard Approved Safety harness at night and in heavy conditions. There is a huge difference between the construction and certification of a safety harness and a surfboard leash. My current harness is a Spinlock that cost around $350.00. Here's a link to it's description http://www.spinlock.co.uk/productitem.asp?pc=DW-LJH/H3&l=deckware&t=Deckvest
There is a huge difference between a $20.00 surf leash and a safety harness.
that's gotta be frustrating Tom.
i had one of those double wrap DaKine's (back when Dakine was a surf company) and loved it.
'course, i never got it wrapped around a coral head in the impact zone.
The simple fact is that leashes save lives every single day. Another simple fact is that people who do not wear leashes in crowded lineups and on crowded beaches are assholes. Every year I see boards get wrecked because some asshole wasn't wearing a leash and his log got away from him. I also see unsuspecting tourists and toddlers on the beach get run down by wayward longboards in the wash. Its jerks like this that cause surfing to be banned in towns like mine. This hurts all surfers. Get over your pride and put a leash on if you don't wear one already.
There is also no substitute for good swimming skills. I am a regular at our local aquatic center and it amazes me every winter to see local surfers come to the pool who can barely swim 50 yards IN A FRIGGIN POOL!!!!! If you can't swim competantly you have no business surfing with or without a leash. You had better be able to confidently swim 500 yards in a pool without breaking a sweat or else you should take up some other sport!!!!!
[quote="$1"]
There's lots of quick release mechanisms used by kite companies these days that could be adapted by a legrope company.
Is there the demand?
Anyone sued a legrope company for cause of drowning?
[/quote]
Wildy, I think, after hearing all the comments, that it would be most prudent to have a backup plan, or Plan B, to help out in those life and death situations that it seems we've all had.
I reckon theres a huge demand for something like a leggie cutter because drowning is a real possibility for every surfer, even the pro surfers.
And although theres not a purpose made product already on the market, if you walked into a surfshop and saw a tried and tested way to save your life in a situation where youre fast running out of options..... Its worth having one, at almost any price.
My local plastics maker is www.dotmar.com.au and they have some formulations that are similar to steel in their rigidity and strength.
I can get a mold made for about 5K and then each widget would cost about 20c as I was quoted 10 000 items for $2000. If the manufacturing cost is 20c it could hit the shelves for about $1.
$1 for life insurance, theres a market for that.
Or maybe there isnt... are surfers still dare devils or corporate billboards with fancy haircuts ?
I disagree with this. Leashes are why surfing is screwed up. In the days before leashes, you wouldn’t go out if you couldn’t safely swim in. If boards washed up on shore regularly, people would think more about keeping an eye towards the horizon. I think it would be great if there weren’t any leashes, then it would be survival of the fittest, and more outside waves for those who don’t lose their boards.
When I first started using leashes, I never used one in big waves because I had a bad experience. It was smarter to swim in than drown or end up with a broken leg. Pre-leash days most surfers were good swimmers, not so these days. Today people venture out into surf they have no business being out in because they have a leash.
Anyone remember the days when you would push a board in because the person riding it was an asshole. Or when you go in and get your buddy’s board before it hits the rocks. That’s how things took care of itself. If you pissed off the wrong person you’d find yourself swimming in.
As far as swimming goes, I used to play waterpolo, and even when I was extremely fit and an excellent swimmer, I had days that I would be praying to get in after being dragged back out by the rip for the third time. I had a similar experience several years ago when my leash broke in double overhead plus waves and I had a very long swim. It’s not fun swimming for 40 minutes.
Seems like there will always be a need to segregate the waders and surfers because waders don’t think about what’s coming in from the ocean. In Hawaii, our parents teach us to always keep one eye out towards the ocean. Never turn your back to the ocean, or you may get hurt by a wave. On the North Shore, you could be 20 feet up the beach on what you think is dry sand and a really big wave will come in, grab you and drag you out into the ocean. I think that happened at Mavericks recently. People drown this way all the time.
If people don’t want to get hit by something carried in on a wave, they shouldn’t be in the ocean. That’s what Pools are for.
[quote="$1"]
[quote="$1"]
The simple fact is that leashes save lives every single day. Another simple fact is that people who do not wear leashes in crowded lineups and on crowded beaches are assholes.
[/quote]
I disagree with this. Leashes are why surfing is screwed up. In the days before leashes, you wouldn't go out if you couldn't safely swim in. If boards washed up on shore regularly, people would think more about keeping an eye towards the horizon. I think it would be great if there weren't any leashes, then it would be survival of the fittest, and more outside waves for those who don't lose their boards.
When I first started using leashes, I never used one in big waves because I had a bad experience. It was smarter to swim in than drown or end up with a broken leg. Pre-leash days most surfers were good swimmers, not so these days. Today people venture out into surf they have no business being out in because they have a leash.
Anyone remember the days when you would push a board in because the person riding it was an asshole. Or when you go in and get your buddy's board before it hits the rocks. That's how things took care of itself. If you pissed off the wrong person you'd find yourself swimming in.
As far as swimming goes, I used to play waterpolo, and even when I was extremely fit and an excellent swimmer, I had days that I would be praying to get in after being dragged back out by the rip for the third time. I had a similar experience several years ago when my leash broke in double overhead plus waves and I had a very long swim. It's not fun swimming for 40 minutes.
Seems like there will always be a need to segregate the waders and surfers because waders don't think about what's coming in from the ocean. In Hawaii, our parents teach us to always keep one eye out towards the ocean. Never turn your back to the ocean, or you may get hurt by a wave. On the North Shore, you could be 20 feet up the beach on what you think is dry sand and a really big wave will come in, grab you and drag you out into the ocean. I think that happened at Mavericks recently. People drown this way all the time.
If people don't want to get hit by something carried in on a wave, they shouldn't be in the ocean. That's what Pools are for.
[/quote]
Sharkcountry, your above statement is such an accurate assessment of the effect on the surfing experience by the introduction of the leash, that it needs repeating. You captured that early surfing experience, enjoyed by many of us from the 50's and 60's, better than I've read before. Thank you, but it makes me long for those days and conditions again. Thanks again!
Sharkcountry & Thrailkill
No disrespect, but that was then, this is now. We live in a much more crowded society now. In my little town there could be 200,000 people on the beach on any given summer day. Boards get washed into crowds of people all the time. Its not just kooks losing their boards either. It makes surfers look bad when a toddler gets run over by a 40 pound board. If you are on a desolate stretch of beach, nock yourself out and take your leash off. Where I come from there are no desolate beaches particularly in the summer.
We also now live in a time when lineups are packed with people of all ages and abilities who are riding boards rangine from 40 pound logs to delicate 4 pound shortboards. Nobody wants to get their board damaged by some ignorant jerk who thinks he’s special and doesn’t need to wear a leash. Like I said, that was then, this is now.
If you are scared about your toddler being hit by a board keep them out of the way. It is simple.
Take responsibilty for yourself and your family, don’t try to make decisions for other people, because you lack your own responsiblity.
It's interesting. While this thread is going on lamenting the popularization of surfing that the leash has assisted in, there is exactly the opposite discussion going on at Sailing Anarchy.
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=106954
They are asking what can be done to increase the popularity of sailing. And, the real issue comes down to barriers to entry.
The leash and soft surfboards lowered the fitness and experience requirement that were surfing's primary barriers to entry.
Sailing is expensive in terms of time and money. It takes a significant investment of both in order to gain enough experience for people to enjoy themselves.
I've got to admit, the congestion that surfing's popularity has inflicted upon most convenient surf spots has made surfing less appealling. And I have been spending more of my leisure time racing sailboats offshore.
Our world is constantly adding population density. That means more interaction. Which leads to the need for methods that people can interact without hurting one another. We are not likely to have a mass exodous from surfing. So, going back to the days of no leashes is not a pratical reality. And, if you are looking for more solitude and emersion into the rythms of the ocean I highly recommend sailing. I won't ever give up surfing. But, I have found supplimental ways to get my mother nature fix.
mako and now is what? was there ever some soulfulness to surfing or is it some herd mentality that infects this world?somewhere some one is laughing at the fultility of this argument. if you surfed long enough somewhere over 20 plus years the entire expierence becomes surreal and you start to realize that is was much more than catching a wave.people that sail on the ocean long distances feel that ,surfers get a small taste of it and it is all consuming at times if they listen. I have sat in lineups and had to endure the most bullshit conversations going on about realestate sale next carpenter job ect… you name it surfing is not social time for me it is a place to reenergize my soul spirit whatever you want to call it.the leash has allowed these clueless types to enter the water.I am too polite to tell them to shut up and listen to the roar of the mother whos teachings need no verbalization only requires one to see and listen if you want to talk bullshit take it to the beach or how about the moron whos bragging to his friend how he ripped on the last wave clueless!!! i have left perfect waves because of the mind sets in them, do it long enough the mother rewards you with what is necessary,sometimes it only takes one wave when i was young it was as many as i could get it takes along time to find the mother.your reality is not mine and i am sad for you but your reality is what surfing should never have become but the conversation was about leashes and you say safety and i say from what? my best for you…
"Take responsibilty for yourself and your family, don't try to make decisions for other people, because you lack your own responsiblity."
oh man Obproud, that's a good one.
Look at mallibu in the 50 and 60’s just as crowded. I hate leashes and in Canada they have the attitude as mako. I have slowly started wearing them again except on my longboard, I will never where a leash on a longboard! I miss surfing sunset cliffs where you wheren’t aloud at the peak with a leash on.
[quote="$1"] Sharkcountry & Thrailkill No disrespect, but that was then, this is now.
[/quote]
Your comment smacks of ignorance, more than disrespect. Do you think for a moment that I don't have an acute understanding (first hand) of the difference between then and now? Personally I'd be happy to see leashes OUTLAWED! I'm sure in your area swimmers and surfers are segregated, so concern for bather safety is bogus, IMO. The assholes you refer to are the ones who kick their boards loose, instead of grabbing the board, to avoid the swim. EVERYONE in the water has a responsibility to look out for themselves, especially swimmers, if they venture into a surfing area. In my world that was true then, and is still true now. Such a strange thought, eh? Personal responsibility! The leash IS NOT A SATETY DEVICE, as pointed out above, but it has given confidence to incompetents that don't belong in ANY lineup, much less one of significance.
Girvin,
Anywhere south of Osprey you'll still get razzed and dropped in on if you paddle out with a leash on a longboard. Not by everyone, but there is still a core crowd out there, especially south garbage and newbreak.
People seem to just expect them on shortboards though.
This is the result of pure ignorance. Ignorant people who want to be surfers, ignorant beach going people who don’t understand or care about the dangers of the ocean. Boards are not the only things that get washed up by the waves, and there are other things under the water that can hurt you more than a loose board. The only thing that can fix your situation is to block off stretches of the beach for non surfers, or build breakwaters for people to wade in waist deep water. Ignorant fools will be ignorant fools, and saying that having a leash on a board will fix that is not fixing the real problem.
My good friend almost died late last year because an ignorant fool tourist paddled out a longboard into waves he couldn’t paddle through. His board ended up going in the air then falls on my friend’s head while he’s paddling through the wave. His hospital bills are over a thousand dollars, and the fool didn’t pay a cent. Good thing he had a leash on because he had his board and was able to get the hell out of there while everyone else was trying to save my friend from drowning.
If there were no leashes, people would be much more careful about how they surf, where they surf, and beachgoers would probably be a lot more concerned about things coming in with the waves. Everything else is pure bull. Like saying don’t go out in the sun because you’ll get sunburn, or you shouldn’t drive a car because other people don’t care.
Start an education program and teach the public about the ocean, the dangers, how to coexist. We’re all ignorant until someone or something teaches us that there’s a lot more to learn.
Hawaii’s beaches are not immune to heavy crowds, we have every type of person on the beach and in the water at Waikiki, at Ala Moana park there’s an area for swimmers. It used to be a place where you might run into another person swimming, but now it’s common for SUP’s to hit swimmers. One of these days they will probably segregate that area and say that SUPs must stay on this side and swimmers must stay on the other side. These problems seem to be worse in the urban areas, and less of a problem in the rural areas. That’s because the rural areas have a local group that will watch over things and educate you about how things work. Sometimes that lesson is easy, sometimes it’s not. In the rural areas, we learn about the ocean when we are little kids. Our parents teach us how to be safe, but the ocean teaches us to respect it.