but in the last time i wish to have some more fun… i am not getting enough waves. the current board is realy nice to surf. skaty, quick direction changes… but not enough waves
so i start thinking about a board wich will take off earlier with more easy… i have a bad take off…
i was searching arround and i fell in love with these nice eggs, like gary hanel/campbell bros are shaping…
i worked around with akushaper and thought somthig around 5.10 15t 20,5 16n 2 5/8 would be a lot of fun in everything from knee high to maybe overhead.
BUT THEN i read some threads…
wide nose will not help for easy take offs. also the thread off volume vs takeoff thread makes me confused. till now i thought more volume and a wide nose will catch waves easier and earlier…
so maybe you can help… i attached the file of the egg i thought it would help me getting in waves earlier, improving my takeoff because of getting more waves…
When you say "bad take-off I’m guessing you’re talking about your transition from paddling to surfing. I don’t know that going wider in your nose is going to help you there. The board you’re on already has quite a bit of surface area. If you need a wider margin for error I’d be thinking more in terms of a little additional length and rocker. Really, the only permanent fix is to work on your technique. Practice, practice, practice. The rocker and surface area you’ve got should be plenty versatile as it is.
Hello Klause, I’ve been wondering this same thing for years. From my experience, I doubt if your wave count will increase significantly going from the first design to the second. I’ve ridden a variety of “short” boards, from 5’4" to 6"10" (eggs, fish, grovelers, funshapes, standards). And they all seemed to catch at roughly the same point of wave steepness. The only boards I have ridden that absolutely increased my wave count, that got me into the waves early, were longboards. I’ve built a couple of small boards that I beefed up considerably (5’5"x23.5"x3.5") just to find the answer to this question, and have yet to get the result of catching more waves. In fact, some of my lower volume small boards seem to takeoff easier. I suspect this is because, sitting lower in the water, they are able to harness more of the waves internal energy than a higher volume board that sits on top of the wave.
Maybe designs that are radically different like the McCoy Nugget or this Pearson Arrow, would do what we are looking for? But, for now, I would say the only way I know how to catch more waves on boards this small is to become a better paddler/surfer or get a log.
The Campbell Brothers and Gary Hanel do make some fine egg shapes. They are shaping performance eggs, boards designed to be forgiving without giving much up in performance. Now if the goal is to up the wave you could go longer like 6'2" to 6'6". Quad fins or bronzer set up would be what I would do. Also check out the eggs by Bill Shrosbree. Bill has been making eggs for a long long time. If you want to catch more waves keep the wide point slightly back of center, more volume in the tail Tail slightly wider then the nose. Check out the Campbell Brothers Pod model.
I think it also depends on what kind of wave you're surfing. At a pointbreak where the wave stands up gradually before crumbling, a longboard is going to catch the wave way outside a 6'0" shortboard, well before it breaks.
At a beachbreak at low tide, where the wave steepens very quickly and then breaks, the advantage of the longboard on early takeoff diminishes considerably. The longboard will still catch the wave earlier, but not that much earlier.
Since I quit longboarding last year I've had lots of different short(er) boards, from a 5'8" Fish up to a 6'10" fun-type shape. I surf mostly beachbreaks. I concluded that the wave-catching advantage of these bigger boards, assuming you are in good paddling shape and surf very regularly (i.e., your timing and conditioning is good) is not worth the trade off in lost maneuverability. In other words, I wasn't really catching any more waves, and the loss in turning meant I was making fewer of the waves I was catching. In steep waves, the ability to turn/pivot on takeoff and start heading down the line is key, and too much length often means you crash and burn on the drop, burying the rail or nose at the bottom.
That's a long-winded way of echoing what was said above - longboards have an advantage; shorter boards depend on technique. I catch just as many waves on my 5'10 thruster as I do on my 5'6" Fish.
The surf has been so inconsistent since I built it that it’s hard to say whether it’s me or the board that isn’t catching as many waves as I remember on a couple other boards that I had dialed. It’s probably a combo of both but for me, the best wave catching board I had was a lightweight 5’2" x 23" x 2 5/8" Mini Simmons. The weight, low rocker, width, super wide tail just plain worked for me. Takeoff was very different than on any other board - more boogie board-ish but it suited me in knee to overhead. I sacrificed some turning performance but realized overall, my surfing improved and was much more consistent on that board.
Wave knowledge is key. Knowing how to read the surface of the wave and putting yourself where the energy pocket is will allow you to catch the wave using less energy, which = more surf time.
I've been having some very positive results with boards 5-10 to 6-2 range with widths from 21-22" wide, 2.25 to 3" thick and pulled in noses at 15" and tails at 16" with quads. The extra volume in the hips will pick up waves earlier and the pulled nose will allow to duck dive easier and allow you to hang around the pit. These are great small wave boards that work well at Oahu's South Shore and small North Shore.
Jesus, you make an excellent point with the Simmons.
For my own experience, I found thanks to Mike Daniel’s guidance, that going smaller actually gets me into the wave better. I was edging up to 7-0 and still struggling. Now I’m around 6-0 to 6-2 and catching and getting in well. Crazy, I know. I think there is a lot to be said for being in the wave at take off instead of on top of the water trying to race it.
Hi Greg,6’ really is a comfortable board length,I went from a 6’6 to the 5’5 shown above and would often step off the back of the board when making foot adjustments.I’m used to it now though,I get my feet in the right spot on the popup,after that the board is so short there is no need for adjustments.I’m thinking of a 6’ simmons,maybe a bit narrower with the same outline and a bit thinner while maintaining the same volume…
I have been saying it for a while now, it took me getting older and surfing more to understand it, lower volume(to a point) catch waves better than medium volumed board. The mid range volumes, don’t have the glide of the big boards, and don’t have the control of small boards once in the wave, and can’t be efficiently swum into the wave. Being in shape will get you more waves than anything. I sit with old fat guys on longboards and can out paddle them on a potato chip. Granted I am 22, and since we never get waves here I spend 10+ hours a week training for rowing crew.
Howzit rider, Back in 94' I got diabetes and started losing weight,I had been around 160Lbs but in good surfingshape.I was down tio149Lbs in a matter of days and bythe time I gat to around 135lbs maybe a couple lbs more. The bottom line was My surfing became so much easier and better when I was already surfing good from the day I surfed in Hawaii. I was really loose and light on my feet for the first time since I was a teenager another time I noticed a difference was when I got out ofthe Marines and my whole body was prime as it would ever be. I was doing things surfing that I had never none before and helped me to make it through the next few party years. I guess what I am trying to say is your total physical shape , I am only talking about the physical part since we already are aware of the mentall committment it takes. but the best physical shape makes you surfing better and your weight is also a big factor so get in shape and surf to the best of abilitie( those hang overs get old fast ). Aloha,Kokua
I’m far from an expert, but my humble opinion is that both your shapes have more nose rocker than needed, especially since they are kinda short. My (limited) experience is that wave catching, regardless of length and your own paddling ability, is greatly affected by two features: entry rocker and nose width. The former is probably more important, too much curve on the nose will make the board push water and resist getting on a plane.
When I was discussing my current board with the shaper I asked for a small-wave design that catches waves easily. He came up with something short & wide, volume forward, low entry rocker. Haven’t measured, but probably around 4in. It looks quite flat but works great.
thanks a lot for your input. so i will stay with my current board i think, and just will work on my takeoff…
it seems that the board is relly good for me (maybe a little short) but it’s just me…
so i will make some more yoga and some exercises and we will see, and when the winter is gone and i can wear my 5.3 again surfing will become much easyer.
maybe the same board with a straigter outline in the tail an a small winger like roberts winged white diamond will tak off better??
I would like to be a better surfer than I am. A better board has not made me a better surfer but riding a poor selection of boards has. I’ve had to work to overcome shortcomings in board designs - my own and others. Plowing through the water with a bad design made me more selective on the wave, a better paddler and slimmer. Kokua and others have put their fingers on an essential truth I learned the hard way years ago:
A poor craftsman can use a great tool for a bad outcome. A good craftsman can use a poor tool for a great outcome.
Likewise my experience in board building has been that focus on a good board will make it easier to continue growing into a better surfer but focus on growing into a better surfer will make it easier to build a better board.
Sort of Catch 22 but not.
In addition to what that |/ afoaf guy says, water line is always a key to speed in hull design. The longer and cleaner the water line for displacement hulls, the faster the theorhetical upper limit and since positioning yourself for the wave and accelerating until you’re planing on the face is the key then “catching” a wave is easier with a longer water line. However you don’t need a long board as such, you need a long clean water line so a clean shorter board with less rocker will get you there almost as well as a long board however what do you do once you’ve caught the wave? Which is why you adjust the length and add more rocker to improve performance while actually on the wave but then you’ve slowed the board back down and compromised the ability of the board to actually catch waves thus getting back to the origional question of how to build a board that catches waves not what to build once you’ve caught them but then more water time and improvements in your abilities allow you to overcome the shortcomings of compromised boards and I think a floaty just went by in my stream of consciousness God I hate running a fever and being cooped up at the keyboard all of which I’m sure makes no sense whatsoever
Hey surfiber,I’ve had the board in knee high to 1’ overhead beackbreak and some stuff in between,the overhead stuff was breaking in about 6’ of water and glassy so it was good and hollow.Keep in mind I’m no shaper and this is my first simmons type build and also the first I’ve ever ridden.I think clean lined up surf suit this board best,from waist to a little overhead.
