Hey all,
I’m new on here and am curious about recycled EPS/Wood and hollow balsa boards. Interested in innovative materials like bamboo and cork but don’t know where to start. What is everyones take on them? As far as durability? denting? longevity? And how they feel in relation to foam. I really like PU and have grown up surfing on it but am tired of burning through boards in a year or less and want to try somthing new.
Any and all input is much appreciated.
Thanks
why don’t you use a denser foam and heavier glass job… it should last alot longer
You didn’t say what genre of board you are looking for or what kind of surfing you do. I think hollow wood comes into its own in longboards, but the weight penalty is too great in shortboards. Compsands seem to produce great results in shorter boards, but I don’t see too many compsand guys doing longboards (not sure why?)
Check out http://ecoboardworks.com/
Todd Patterson is a long time sways member and he does an awesome job using recycled materials and earth friendly alternative resins and solvents.
T.
Welcome to Swaylocks.
Thats a big, wide-open question - hard to give specifics based on so little info. But I have to say, you're on the right track if you're tired of expendable surfboards lasting only a year or a season, and think there are better ways.
Have you every built a surfboard? You can build your own surfboard to last longer than a surfshop board just by using denser foam and more glass, as AStevens pointed out, and just doing that is a step in the right direction, as far as being environmentally less wasteful.
A lot depends on what you want or demand of your boards. If you're addicted to ultralight high performance boards, then you just have to accept that short shelf life is a given - well, that or compsand (vacuum bagging wood veneer over foam), as cycloxslug said. But if you're willing to accept a bit more weight as a trade-off for longevity and environmental concerns, then there are a lot of choices and options.
Another factor that will guide your decisions is, How much work are you willing to put into getting the boards you want? Most of us here make our own boards, and so we're kinda biased in that direction. Do you have manual skills, and the desire?
There's a lot of helpful, knowledgeable board builders here, you just have to be a bit more specific on exactly what your goal or desire is, and what your circumstances are (type of waves and boards you surf, workshop space available, desire to build own boards or not, etc. etc.)
Sorry for not enough info…Its tough for me to answer as well cause I’m
at a point where this is all new ground and I’m just looking for
somthing new.
I’ve been riding traditional potato chips for a couple
years (the rest of the time surfing mostly on longboards) and am not only tired of burning
through boards, but am open to new innovative material as a means of
escaping super toxic PU and moving onto somthing that will not only last
longer but have less environmental impact.
I have never built my own surfboard nor do I have the means of doing so (college kid living in small apartment). I have a local shaper at home (Cape Cod, MA i.e. beach break heaven) that has made 2 customs for me that work very well (6’0 swallow tail perf. thruster and 6’3 rounded pintail) so my only concern is that when the surf does get bigger if I choose a compsand or even go hollow what will be some of the trade off’s? Will it feel like its holding me back? Just curious as to whether or not I’ll be able to do the same things on the wave without the board tapping the brakes.
Thanks for the input
[quote="$1"]
...I have never built my own surfboard nor do I have the means of doing so (college kid living in small apartment). I have a local shaper at home (Cape Cod, MA i.e. beach break heaven) that has made 2 customs for me that work very well (6'0 swallow tail perf. thruster and 6'3 rounded pintail) so my only concern is that when the surf does get bigger if I choose a compsand or even go hollow what will be some of the trade off's? Will it feel like its holding me back? Just curious as to whether or not I'll be able to do the same things on the wave without the board tapping the brakes.
[/quote]
We're getting there, but there are still some details missing. You ask whether you'll be able to do the same things on the wave with a hollow or a compsand - but you don't say what things you're doing on the wave now. Maybe that sounds picayune, but it does make a difference in the answer.
If you are a high level surfer who surfs or aspires to surf "like a pro" - meaning a repertoire of slashing cutbacks, mid-face hacks, and a variety of aerial maneuvers (the stuff the judges look for) then no, you won't be able to surf the same on a hollow board. Compsand boards can be built very light, so with the right compsand, probably yes, you could surf the same. I don't ride compsands and have never tried one, but I picked one up once, and was amazed at how light it was. But its doubtful your regular shaper could build it, you need to find a shaper / builder that does that, or else buy one from someone like Sunova.
Another option (again, I've never ridden one of these) that some people say is longer-lasting than a typical pu/pe surfboard is Coil surfboards.
Hollow boards tend to be heavier than foam, so there is a trade-off. Some people, like Roger Hall, prefer the extra weight. And I've had some people tell me straight up that anything 8 lbs. or over is not a high performance surfboard. My own boards fall mostly in the 10-20 lb. range, and work fine for me.
There are chambered hollow boards, and planking-over-framework hollow boards. I ride the latter, and like the way they ride. But you won't find me slashing and shredding, more like turning and trimming, at best.
I hope some of this helps.
[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN1FvpwYmOU]
[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KeiSV2nxM4]
There’s a good shaper in Providence RI that does a lot of hollow honeycomb boards. Kevin Cunningham (he’s on here sometimes) --Spirare surfboards. I’ve never surfed one of his, but I know they are pretty light and durable and some cool tech. He’s got a good following in the northeast. Plus he’s a good guy and it seems like for what you get, his prices are fair too.
As far as surfing “like a pro” goes i’m less concerned with that as far as boosting 1ft airs that I don’t land and being a “ripper” and more concerned with just doing what the wave allows so when its time for a radical turn than I can do it with no resistance from the board or manuvering in the most critical parts of the wave with ease and precision. So my question to all of you who have ridden PU and ridden EPS/Wood is how big of a gap is there between the two with doing those types of manuvers?? That sounds clearer
And I have looked into Kevin’s boards alot, deffinetly thinking about ordering one but want to test the waters first.
Thanks
Hey transplant,
I went through the same process years ago. Rode poly boards, but always got them glassed heavy with 6/6/6 glassjobs. Was tired of heavy boards but not willing to sacrifice durability for weight.
The logical process in my mind, was stringered EPS/Epoxy, stringerless epoxy, then I found a guy in FL who was doing the bamboo veneer and is now doing the cork veneer. My current quiver has a stringerless EPS, a stringerless EPS/bamboo/carbon and a stringerless EPS/cork/carbon.
I’d say for the easiest to get, cheapest, most durable alternative to a poly board go with a stringerless EPS. Ideally get it vacuum bagged. There’s lots of guys doing it. Just look around or ask you local shaper if he knows anyone who can glass it for him. That’s the best bet, get your local shaper dialed in to alternative construction and experiment and give feedback.
Hollow wood is a bit quirky and a ton of work/investment for what it is. Danny Hess (http://hesssurfboards.com/) is the benchmark for that construction. The Grain guys are up in Maine, they are worth checking out as well as the Tree to Sea forum (http://www.grainsurf.com/forum/), lots of good DIY info on there regardign hollow wood boards if you want to go that route. I wanted to go that route for a while, but didn’t want to pay the weight penalty, and the process doesn’t lend itself well to dialing in a shape without a lot of work and access to CNC machining equipment.
Here’s some writeups on my progression through “eco” boards. (Notice I put “eco” in quotes, unless you’re doing a fully wood board, attaching the word “eco” to it is just greenwashing it, EPS and epoxy aren’t “eco-friendly” materials. The best you can do is make a board as durable as possible, so you get the longest life possible out of it) -
http://www.phoresia.org/?cat=3
All my boards are shaped by Tom Neilson in Central Florida. He’s usually got some bamboo/cork/stringerless boards in stock -
http://www.tomneilsonshapes.com/shop_inventory.php
My latest EPS/cork/carbon railed board:
http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB4&Number=2216431
For me the important thing was being able to work with my local shaper and dial in existing boards. I think a lot of people miss that aspect of it. Shipping a board 3000 miles is counter-productive if one of your goals is minimizing your overall impact. Better to work locally and get the local crew exposed to alternative methods.
Another option you could use locally would be Marko recycled EPS blanks. That way you can stick with your local shaper and try EPS/epoxy fairly easily.
Hopefully that gives you some info to digest. Ultimately you have to decide what’s right for you and what your requirements are.
After going back and re-reading the thread I guess my last post focused more on construction than ride.
Here’s my impressions:
EPS/epoxy is stiffer and has a quicker rebound. Takes a little getting used to initially, but ultimately seemed quicker to respond. I ended up taking about 1/8" overall thickness out of my boards more to get the flex right.
The skinned boards (bamboo/cork) also increase stiffness, but the glass job has to be dialed in to account for this. Luckily I found drewtang (Drew from Insipired Surfboards) who had already done the legwork and got the glassjob dialed in. My first board that he glassed was a bamboo veneer that I rode hard for 2 years. It had one noticeable heel dent under my front foot. Other than that it was in excellent shape. I sold it to a friend for $350, and got a cork skinned version. I’ve only had a chance to ride that a handful of times, but initial impressions are that it’s really similar in feel and performance.
I’ve been riding stringerless EPS boards for about 5 years now. I love the simplicity of them - just EPS and s-glass. This is also a plus for DIY guys outside the US where a lot of surfboard specific materials are hard to come by.
Durability is excellent, again a little stiffer than poly and a different flex, but easily adapted to and doesn’t hinder your surfing. Actually, I’ve found that being able to ride the same board for much longer really helps you to build your confidence in your board. My stringerless EPS boards typically get one larger heel dent under my front foot. Not the golf-ball dents that poly gets all over, but more of one larger impression under you whole foot. This is usually a sign that the glassjob is dialed in pretty well. It’s not too stiff as to not give, but not too weak as to dent to hell and start seeping water.
Hope that gives a little more insight into the ride quality.
Thanks alot that really gives me a better idea. I’m really more
concerned about the durability cause i’m really lanky and boney so I
always put dips in my boards cause of my gorilla knees.
Its
deffinetly not eco friendly but its better to know that you can use a
100% recycled blank and a resin that released less VOC’s than poly.
Stoked on the idea of using bamboo or cork both have a very nice
asthetic and are a nice change from flat white.
Where do you live
in florida? I’m in St. Augustine and am pretty sure they have some of
the cork decker’s at Blue Sky Surf Shop I’ll have to go check’m out.
I used to live in Satellite Beach. I’m up in Wilmington, NC now though.
If you’re in St. Augustine, you need to go talk to Drew at Inspired Surfboards, he’s there in St. Augustine (http://www.inspiredsurfboards.com/), he’s the one who glasses my bamboo/cork boards, and he’s a mad scientist with all sorts of rad construction methods. Search user “drewtang” on here, you’ll see a bunch of his boards.
You definitely need to go talk to him if you’re interested in a more durable, high performance board.
The Wood with Recycled EPS boards I make are very fast and responsive. I keep the weight as close to PU boards as possible (within a few ounces) so there is no bulky heavy feeling. The boards are super durable; I cleaned the wax off a board I have been riding for 2 years and there were no pressure dings. Feel free to email or call to talk about boards, and if you are ever in the area my shop is always open to visitors.