Sometimes driving smaller cars aren’t always the best answer to going greener.
I’d like to think of myself as somewhat of a green head (if I can help it). My family ownes an SUV and it gets crappy gas mileage (15mpg ave.). But it can fit 7 people and alot of gear. We also own a toyota camry that does about 30 mpg. So which would be better when I need to go somewhere with 6 other people and their gear? one SUV or 2 camrys? I already know the answer. And just basing it on mpg, I would pick the SUV. I’ve loaded up the camry with all our stuff and the weight bumps down the mpg to about 25 mpg. whereas the SUV still gets 15. I have a big family and using the SUV fully loaded is a fairly common thing. I also used to bash on Hummers until I saw a diesel Hummer running on Biodiesel!
I’m not bagging on you Llilibel, because for most people that I see driving SUV’s with just 3 people in it seems not practical…and I totally agree on going veg.
I got 2.5 planets and I’m Vegan and mostly ride a bike as transportation. That’s pretty depressing, although I guess you need to take the results with a grain of salt.
On a related note, here is the link to a blog that I’ve have been working on with a few other like-minded surfers who are trying to make a difference, however small it may be -
Howzit llilibel, On my trip to the Mainland I had the pleasure of taking a tour of the Patagonia headquarters. They are a very green company and getting more green all the time. They are in the process of going totally solarvoltic and their company cafeteria serves great healthy food. When you first walk into their company you will see a lot of boards lined up in racks, this is because they encourage their employees go surf. Can you imagine working at a place where the boss says " hey let's go for a surf, i hear it's going off today". Aloha,Kokua
beats his head I should have taken that job at patagonia . . .
beats his head I should have taken that job at patagonia . . .
beats his head I should have taken that job at patagonia . . .
beats his head I should have taken that job at patagonia . . .
but no . . . I get $10 more an hour but going sterile and senile from the stress. Oh well it’ll be just enough to pay the financial mafiosos (well it kinda was my fault for entering into agreements with them) off and I’m almost done with it.
I got like 2. something planets. whoa. I think to go green it has to be a mentality of you as an individual, your government. Your peers. And the companies / organizations.
I think the main issue of Western civilization is of the convenience thing, and a severe adherance to that. I’ve seen people wait 10 minutes to get that parking next to the beach or pay $5 an hour parking, whereas 2 blocks away there’s free parking (and you have know where to look).
Look at all the packaging / the preservatives. I work doing computers and a new 19" LCD monitor produces a 6 inch thick, 30" x 30" box. Inside there a cubic foot of foam inserts. . . enough plastic / packaging to fill in a 32 oz container, a 20x20" foam bag, 20X20" high density plastic laminate (like transparent Credit card material). Wow!
Instead of creating recycling places or making it easy to recycle (hazardous materials like electronic components / oil / chemicals / batteries etc you have to pay a disposal fee. What’s ironic is when you order electronic items, they charge a version of CRV disposal on it LOL!! and it effin goes into the landfill.
Hiro…PM me & you’ll get a phone number. When I’m not building surfboards or using them, I own a recycling company. Some of what you’re talking about is easily solved. Sometimes, you can be a hero for finding your company ways to save money & be more green all at once…and sometimes you get to take the EPS home and hotwire it into chunks that eventually become blanks. No e-waste needs to go into the landfill anymore, at least not in CA. And the state charge is only on CRT monitors…I might be able to help your company. No bs consulting fees or anything like that, don’t worry. My customers include Chiron, Ikea, Sara Lee Foods…
And yeah, I really have brought home EPS bits from work and made blanks out of them. Hotwires + foaming PU glue are an amazing combination
The other day when this first was posted I took the test two ways…the way I actually live including the hoped for but sometimes impossible 1 annual r.t. airplane trip, and that way I’m in the low 4s. Then I took it as if I didn’t surf…which popped me down below 3 (I didn’t write it down and don’t remember exactly now). Very interesting!
Surfing leaves us high on the abuser list, unless we live within a couple of blocks of the beach. Period. And living that close to the water in most places now means there is economic well-being involved, just like in the high-minded Patagonia, a very successful business empire. Low impact living is a privilidge of the wealthy.
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I think the main issue of Western civilization is of the convenience thing
When I used to have the outside career-type job we had to buy convenience just to have a liveable life. When I left that position our recycling cans would fill every two weeks. When they conned me into going back for a few months the quantity of recycling went down while the trash in trash cans went up. Just an observation. That job had no viable public transportation to or from the work site. The hours frequently ran to 50-60 per week. Add 10 more hours a week to that to ride a bike and you would have no life at all. And all that was when the job had moved to the community in which I lived; prior to that there was a 45 minute commute each way. The nearest surfing is 8-10 miles away, saving me at today’s rates about $10,000 a month in house payments.
Don’t even get me started about computers. The planned obsolesence in technology makes automobiles look like granite sculpture. $$$$$.
In southern California every time there is a heat wave and the power grid gets shakey the word goes out in the media for everyone to conserve electricity, to use appliances only at night or in the morning. I live in a very modest house with no a/c. I’m at the point where I can see no earthly reason why I should sit and sweat without turning on a fan or stay up late to wash clothes or unplug all electrical equipment just so 20 others can air condition the 30 foot tall vaulted ceiling living rooms in their 3000 square foot McMansions 24/7.
We do what we can, but major change will take everybody getting involved.
(Sorry for any spelling errors…the old computere didn’t like my attitude and won’t allow spelling checks at the moment).
Unpretentious, breathable, warm, comfy, light, flexible and protective. Without adequate footwear my feet would’ve been destroyed years ago.
The uppers were made from a leather welding apron. Soles are Malaysian gum rubber, footbed and insole are custom shaped high density EVA and Poron polyurethane laminate, no stitching… bonded with Barge All-Purpose Cement.
Surfing leaves us high on the abuser list, unless we live within a couple of blocks of the beach. Period. And living that close to the water in most places now means there is economic well-being involved, just like in the high-minded Patagonia, a very successful business empire. Low impact living is a privilidge of the wealthy.
Not necessarily.
Assuming that you are talking about motor vehicle use, surely it is the total amount of fuel used per person per month which counts ? When we drive to the beach we get about 170 miles to the gallon (per person!) and we don’t drive unless we are going to the beach (with only very rare exceptions) doing on average about 50 miles per week . For all our regular shopping and other town activites we walk, I use a wheelbarrow for shopping. In contrast I know people who live at the beach who drive a lot, up and down the coast for surf checks, in the car just to go 2 miles to the shop, that sort of thing. . . plus trips all over the country and to indo . . . their average mileage per annum is about 10,000 or more, we are doing a quarter of that at 170mpg per person, driving a 33foot bus !
Well, that certainly reads nasty on my part. Rather than being a whimsey of the wealthy I think low impact living quite reasonably is a responsibility, though certainly not one shared or acknowledged by all. It’s just easier for the wealthy.
Part of my/our problem (it’s all our problem, isn’t it?) is that a place like the U.S. has a huge population and a high cost of living. To reasonably have 2 people living in a safe environment with some form of health care insurance requires 2 automobiles in most circumstances - and that becomes an absolute when you surf, unless you live at the beach. My family has a small truck with the smallest 4 cylindar engine they used to offer, and a 25 year old diesel sedan. We have looked into converting the diesel to biofuel or whatever they call it at the moment. We can have that conversion done for approximately $750 usd.
To fuel it we would practically have to go foraging for appropriate fuel and/or get it and mix it in our garage. That is monumentally labor intensive, which is still okay if one wants to commit on that level. And this is only a stopgap measure, and will work only so long as few people use this option. If even 5-10% of the people go biodiesel, there will be no product for them. In theory someone will rise to provide what the people want…but given the quality of leadership and level of responsiblity of corporations, I don’t think I’ll commit. Willie Nelson is the people’s hope as energy czar, and Kinky Friedman has said he’ll nominate Willie for that position on a state level if elected governor of Texas next month, but I bet even Willie would tell you you are on thin ice if you are relying on him to save the world.
The sheer scale of things in places like California and the U.S. makes this a vexing problem. For me it seems the best that can be done is to do what you can as an individual while living a responsible life, without ending up with bleeding holes in your hands.
Nels, it sounds like you have biodiesel mixed up with veggie oil fuel. Any diesel engine can burn ASTM-certified diesel fuel which happens to be made from soy-, corn-, rapeseed- or canola-oil. Its sold in percentages from 5% biofuel (B5) to 20% (B20 - like at Willie Nelson’s stops) to B99. I’ve been burning B99 in my truck for 10 months without a hiccup. My mileage is better, my engine will last longer, I’m independent of foreign oil (and wars), and I make no particulate exhaust. If I go on the road, I can still put in dino diesel without any penalty (except mileage & conscience).
Running veggie oil fuel requires extensive modifications - either pony tanks for starting & stopping on diesel or biodiesel until your engine is at operating temp., or fuel line heaters (‘veg-therms’) that warm the straight veggie oil (“SVO”) until the viscosity is reduced enough to burn in your engine. And once you commit, there’s no going back without ripping it all out.
Your diesel car is a great candidate for biodiesel. In the Bay Area, I find bio costs about 10% more than dino, but I get more than 15% better mileage (less internal friction & more complete combustion). And all I have to worry about are Halliburton’s black helicopters intercepting this email and following me around.
Thanks for that link…very interesting…but it also verifes my thought that the stuff isn’t available in a really viable way at least in my area. It makes no sense to drive 15 miles to fill the tank (I don’t live in Ventura proper). I don’t live a regimented enough life to be certain I’ll even be in the area every week. Ventura with it’s million dollar beach and view homes and the World HQ of Patagonia…
What is your take on frequently spoken notion that biodiesel take more energy to produce than it saves (especially since this started with an eco-footprint examination)?
Yes, I did lump biodiesel and veggie oil fuel together (sorry - got lazy). The veggie oil fuel is the labor intensive search and mix option once the car is converted…and I have to think supply will vanish if a serious enough number of motorists converted. While that is a valid philosophical choice it just isn’t real world enough for me. Maybe you can answer the one question I can’t seem to find on that, though- doesn’t the veggie oil gum things up inside the fuel system?
I’m for cleaner living within reason- and reason gets out of control when the sacrifices of caring people are used to support the selfish notions of the majority. Early this past summer I had the idea that a good summer fuel strategy might be to get a decent motor scooter, helmet, with locking storage big enough for the helmet once at the destination and for surfmat and fins on the way down. I don’t think it is possible to go lighter in the western surf world without living on the beach. I was immediately waylaid by how much roadworthy motor scooters cost (several thousand dollars new and a couple of thousand used if available- few available). So like Roy it was minimal trips to the beach, surf only, and I usually combined trips with other schedules…and after a couple of weeks I realized that to do something like run the Pacific Coast Highway north of Malibu is to run a daily gauntlet of huge vehicles driven by distracted people at excessive speeds…worse on freeways…no thanks.
I swear to God the only fuel conservation and public transportation strategy I’ve heard in this U.S. election year was offered by the CEO of the Auto Nation used car dealership corporation in a speech: tax gasoline until it is twice the current cost. I’m not a meth-addicted alcoholic so the logic behind that statement ecapes me. Does he think people will start building electric cars in their garages? Everybody will quit their jobs so they no longer have to commute? Commandeer school buses so they can “use mass transit”? Stay home or go to work like good servants while the better funded do whatever they want?
I hear you, Nels. I guess the best thing you could do, is whenever you happen to be near the biofuel stop in the diesel car, top it off with whatever will fit. And tell your friends. Stimulate demand and more supply will be built in response.
Biodiesel is actually quite energy-efficient to produce. Current biodiesel is made from first-press crops, which is more expensive only in that those crops aren’t then available for food. But biodiesel can also be made from crop slash like corn stalks, melon vines, wheat chaff, etc. But demand needs to be there first.
How good for the health of the country would it be if the congressional subsidies given to corn & soybean farmers (#1 & 2) were only extended if they produced biofuel? Get all the genetically-modified soy & high-fructose corn syrup out of the foodstream and the obesity problem would be well on its way towards being solved.
(I realize I’m pretty far OT for a surf forum here…)
Its the production of ethanol which has me concerned. Yes, we could reach energy independence with it. But it takes vast amounts of electricity to distill alcohol from corn or wood - electricity which is made by burning coal. Energy independence without carbon reduction or at least neutrality is only a soultion to the economic-political problems, not the atmospheric ones…
I totally agree with you on the hopeless & selfish consumption demonstrated by so many among us. But just since I started burning B99 in my truck, one of my neighbors - a 60+ year old single woman who I’d had but one conversation with about my “biodiesel” bumper sticker - went out & found a used diesel VW bug and runs it on bio. One neighbor at a time…
It seems like the Biodiesel bumper stickers are working. Everytime I see someone with a biodiesel sticker, I always like to chat it up with them and they’re always in a positive vibe and very helpful. Most of them accept that this is not for everyone and they seem to be very open minded and don’t seem to be judgemental at all.
That’s been my take as well. Biodiesel is also pretty much politically neutral - no matter which side of the aisle you’re on, you can see the benefits to energy independence & reducing pollution. I’ve had lots of good conversations with all different folks about it. There are 4 retail fueling outlets in Marin Co now, 2 more in Santa Rosa, 1 in Martinez, the one in Berkeley is building a 24-hour station, and I’ve also filled up down on 10th st in San Jose south of the stadium. Good stuff.
I realize I’m pretty far OT for a surf forum here…)
Not at all…no vehicles, no surfing, no buying new blanks and materials, no harvesting wood for wood boards in some of those days, no buying balsa in West L.A. for Malibu boards in the 1950’s. No vehicles and it’s surfing in the 19th century…which might not be all bad in same ways…
Hi Nels, sounds a little like you’re kind of discouraged about the effort of being “green.”
I don’t think we should get discouraged because the unenlightened masses are still driving their Ford Excursions while you make the sacrifice and drive the smallest 4 cylinder you can find or save power while others waste. You said that major change will take everyone to get involved. Exactly. Where do you start? At home. Locally. each and everyone of us is that part of everyone that we have control over. Kind of like the Jewish proverb quoted in the film “Schindler’s List”- if you save one person it’s like you’ve saved the whole world.
I also wanted to mention that the idea of doubling gas tax sounds good to me. If gas cost $7 a gallon (or better yet, make it $10 and let’s save Social Security at the same time) would you go out and buy a Hummer? Would you buy a house that’s a one hour drive from where you work? In Europe (or at least in Italy where I lived for 7 years) gas costs more than twice what it does here. You don’t see many big SUVS! I hear people here say they need a big car for the family. Well, in Italy families get by with a small station wagon or sedan or even what we would call compacts- Fiat Unos and VW Golfs (rabbits). And even tinier cars like the SMART are becoming popular.
Another thing they do in Italy that seems logical to me is to base a car’s registration fees on the car’s engine size (they call it “cilindrata”). Big engine, big tax. Makes sense.
Would Americans ever go for any of this? Maybe not. I think we have a cowboy mentality that equates the big SUV to something outdoorsy, even though that’s as far from the truth as possible. The most outdoorsy car is the Prius.
Here in the U.K road tax,(similar to registration fees), is based on how much CO2 your car produces. Some political parties want to put this up hugely for bigger CO2 producing engines. Fuel here is about US$9 a gallon.
On the subject of veg oil it has been shown that diesel engines work fine on filtered waste cooking oil from catering outlets, in the U.K 2.5 million litres of this is produced each week, not anough for all the cars on the road these days put it would go a long way. The viscosity problem, (which is only really a big problem during winter), has been solved by a company here who have developed a solvent additive. Recently a motoring show on the tele crossed the country on waste oil taken straight out of peoples fryers but I reckon your fuel filter would clog pretty quickly using oil in it’s unfiltered form.
All effort made in the right direction is worth while, so as you say, don,t be put off be others making no effort at all. My biggest “eco crime” is long haul flights, any flying is bad though, do a lot of this and your eco footprint gets huge.
I also wanted to mention that the idea of doubling gas tax sounds good to me. If gas cost $7 a gallon (or better yet, make it $10 and let’s save Social Security at the same time) would you go out and buy a Hummer? Would you buy a house that’s a one hour drive from where you work? In Europe (or at least in Italy where I lived for 7 years) gas costs more than twice what it does here. You don’t see many big SUVS! I hear people here say they need a big car for the family. Well, in Italy families get by with a small station wagon or sedan or even what we would call compacts- Fiat Unos and VW Golfs (rabbits). And even tinier cars like the SMART are becoming popular.
I guess I would say I’m not so much discouraged as maybe fearful of the scenario you described above. North America isn’t Europe, the distances are vast, the populations spread out. Europe has various effective forms of mass transit. Many European countries have socialized medicine and don’t have to scrape and bow to have access to some form of modern healthcare. I am told and have read - and would love to hear from the people in Europe about this- that most of the cost of gas in Europe is from taxation. Now, you mentioned above that you would be willing to pay more for gas in the South Bay…way more if it helped fix Social Security…I bet most people would find such a tax at least liveable if the tax money went somewhere significant like developing mass transit, nationalized availablility of health insurance, and fixing Social Security. And therein lies the fatal flaw in this as applied to the U.S.
Why feather somebody’s nest at “our” expense and sacrifice (i.e. significant financial hardship for those with the least income)? I think anybody in the U.S. can offer scandalous humor in illustrating just what would happen to a huge tax windfall.
I’m about out of time here but one last thing concerning
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If gas cost $7 a gallon (or better yet, make it $10 and let’s save Social Security at the same time) would you go out and buy a Hummer? Would you buy a house that’s a one hour drive from where you work?
The notion of living where you work in the U.S. is nearly nostalgic…certainly for those who surf but also are planted in the real world (non-surf industry). It takes a lot of money to live what was formerly known as a “middle class” existence on or near the beach, and that kind of money is seldom earned near the beach. The “future” as many planners would like to see it - preferably from their designer log mansions in the Rockies - would have super dense populations living over knick-knack shops, Italian eateries, and lawyer’s offices in planned urban communities with no free parking and pretty much zero tolerance for eccentricities. It’s a sterile Surftech world where surfers might not only have a chance to win Kate’s bikini but have it choke the life out of them in warm, red tide waters…
I also wanted to mention that the idea of doubling gas tax sounds good to me. If gas cost $7 a gallon (or better yet, make it $10 and let's save Social Security at the same time) would you go out and buy a Hummer? Would you buy a house that's a one hour drive from where you work?
Gore has proposed replacing all federal taxes with an energy tax based on CO2 emissions (which is going to be pretty close to a BTU or Joule tax). Its an interesting idea, although somewhat regressive for a liberal.
That is a radical idea. Here is a not-so-radical idea. Electric cars use 33-50% of the total energy as gas cars. Switching a large fraction of America to EV cars could
kill the global oil problem (since the EV cars recharge on coal or natural gas or nuclear or some other non-oil refinery juice)
reduce the fraction of emissions that is car based (which is SUBSTANTIAL)
Save America a lot of money
There’s an interesting story about why electric cars are not sold by Detroit…
Or Japan…
My life in SF was <2 planets, My current life over 5. It doesn’t really feel that different.
When I lived in SF, I used to look at the busses that said “zero emissions vehicle” with contempt. They actually burn coal, since that is where the electricity comes from. BUT, the emissions from an electric vehicle, even powered by coal, are much lower than your standard internal combustion engine.
Just my 2 cents. (Btw, I used up 3.2 worlds. Since I don’t think we’ll be cutting the population by two thirds any time soon, something else needs to change.)
