Just got the newest Surfer’s Journal and I see the article about the original edge boards by Mr. X.
Been thinking about the edge board design ever since the article about Greenough and Rasta and the boards GG made. I just can’t get my head to accept that the reverse curve will be better than a Stewart style chine and conventional down/tucked rail for rail surfing. They look great for down the line speed burns, but for waves where you’d want to make a lot of quick turns to stay in the pocket I don’t know. Mr. X’s design doesn’t have the kind of rail GG uses, and it’s more like what I’ve done but way more extreme.
Everything I know about rails with softer round edges screams more drag, so when you lay the board over on rail, it would seem like your going to be hitting brakes, but a down rail would allow you to maintain your speed. GG mentions that the board will do that when you engage the rail to turn.
I have several boards with tri-plane hulls incorporating a concave center panel with flat or slightly bellied side panels meeting thin pinched rails. Some have tucked rails with a hard edge.
Now I see several well known shapers making them. Anyone out there riding these modern edge boards? Comments?
What GG and Rasta are talking about is rolling the board up just enough to engage the right angle edge. You want to keep the rail part of the rail (if that makes sense) out of the wave face as much as possible. That’s why there is a 45 degree chine between the edge and the outside of the rail. It’s more of a trimming thing. I’ve made a few and never got it to work because I didn’t shape in the 45 degree angle chine. My edge boards were more like Duncan’s tri planes (revised and repackaged by Merrick). Kinda skatey, looked really cool under your arm but not sure how much better they were than a hard tucked edge.
I think the edge template has to be really straight for it to work like GG intends. If you put too much curve in it, it won’t engage. I would call BS on the whole deal but it IS Greenough and he’s never let me down yet…
Andreini got his info from GG and Manny got his info from Marc. The whole idea is speed speed speed. I firmly believe that the edge stuff will not improve maneuverability but it’ll get you on plane faster than a rounder bottom.
Yeah, I think they would be great for waves that need the straight line speed, and not waves that you need to turn a lot.
I think highly of Greenough, but he surfs different kinds of waves, and he’s either in his belly, knees, or has wind power.
I saw a clip on surfline or somewhere about Uluwatu and Gerry Lopez and there’s some footage of Rob Machado surfing an edge board. I also saw several images of some edge boards he uses. Still have a lot of reservations, but I’ll bet that they’ll show up here.
I have a few boards with hard edges like the Mr. X thing that I thought worked well. I guess it’s time to get them wet again and take some mental notes.
I’ve always wanted to try to make a board with Morey boogey style rails. My brother has a Swizzle, but it’s really heavy, so I haven’t tried it. The tail has very interesting rails.
I just read the article in Surfers Journal by Nat Young. His mention of the board Bunker Spreckles owned and his attempts to do something similar. Funny how people take away differant things from the same article.
When you take Greenough’s history into account, it has always been about speed. Being a product of his environment with Rincon, the Ranch, the Channel Islands and all the points nearby have instilled these speed runs. From his go carts to boards and boats and cars he is chasing that feeling of speed. The “Edge”
boards go back to the Wilderness days in S.B. so they have been around a long time. You have to make a choice between a “skatey” board or a burner. Different strokes. And this time I don’t think the twain meets.
I saw that video posted. I don’t surf the way those guys do with the cutback turns like that where you have to grab the rail. I don’t know if it is just the way he surfs, or if he’s nursing the board through to keep it from sliding out. It may be because it’s a single fin. They do look like they go fast.
May be a Hawaii thing, but I like a board that you push all your weight into a turn standing tall and not have to nurse it through the turn. The way Ian Cairns, Johnny Boy Gomes, Ben Aipa and a lot of others here surf. Machado was riding his board really good, but he rides everything good. I think this is what he was riding.
I like to surf/turn like you do Sharkcountry but I also think Hawaiian juice has to do with it. After surfing the Islands and then coming back to the mainland, that was a glaring difference. For those kind of turns I need to seek out a few of the spots with more punch than most. A lot breaks here you can draw out your turn but it will be hell to catch up and get going again. Similar to the rock and rollers do often when turning they take themselves right out of the wave. It is the complete opposite of they way I learned. We were taught to not waste the wave, but to let it dictate your reactions.
tblank so true. My brother and I learned at a time when surfing was more a dance WITH the wave and not so much trying to bash it up. Aggression and skate culture have really changed things. I admire the younger guys that can do crazy stuff and still ride the wave all the way through.
Shoots fellas…thanks. Not to take anything away from the progressives. It is amazing the things you see on a wave now. MAJOR athleticism by these guys. I remember watching Cheyne Horan (could go on for days about his surfing and accomplishments) trying time after time to carve a 360 turn on the face with these crazy short, fat, thick, swallow tailed, stings (or not) boards. He came damn close plenty of times. To me it was science fiction and now they do double FLIPS!! and stick the landing to finish the wave. But what still makes me stand up and pay attention is a good old B.K. bottom turn. It’s not only the power or speed. It is all that with grace combined. Smooth is fast.
Harry, Tim, Matt, I’m on the same page with you guys. I especially resonate with, ‘’… a dance WITH the wave.‘’ Gymnastics, and skateboard tricks, are not the fluid and poetic ballet, that are the hallmark of a great ride. What I frequently refer to as, ‘‘Making the difficult, look easy.’’ Phil Edwards always comes to mind, when I say that phrase.
and agree with the direction of this thread. And I agree also that the stuff the pro surfers are doing today is truly mind blowing. But for me the beauty of a ride is in the old school flow, I see the guys today doing amazing acrobatics with wild claiming after every ride, and it kinda leaves me cold. slash / hack / flip / claim! haha
Yep, to me a waltz is much better then a break dance. Take what nature gives you, don’t try to morph it into something it isn’t. (I’m starting to sound like my dad)
Tblank, in the late ‘70s I surfed Laniakea at about 6 feet and Cheyne came out on a single fin semi-gun, the basic board we were all riding back then. I’d never seen anyone surf as good as he did that day. Powerful and precise, fluid and fast. He could have easily been the best in the world if he stayed on normal boards. I applaud his efforts to use different equipment, but he went too far. I never liked Mark Richards’ wounded gull style, or Shaun Tomson’s style, but I could watch Cheyne surf all day.
Cheyne fits perfectly into this discussion with his attempts at trying to find the perfect board. Some of those boards looked like what Mr. X edge boards were trying to do, thick tails to surf from one spot on the board.
Another interesting aspect in the Surfer’s Journal Mr X article, is the way Vinny Bryan had those foot wells for the rear foot. I was thinking about doing that because I don’t use stomp pads. It was also really cool to learn that Vinny was from Ewa Beach, my hometown where Shark Country is. I had heard his name from a few of the older guys, but not much more.
Something I missed from the Edge board article in the new SJ. The fins on Mr X’s new board. I made this fin about 8 - 10 years ago, but I never had the nerve to try it. I cut it out of a 3/8" thick piece of clear lexan. It was when the Wavegrinder fin came out. My brother is an early adopter of new tech, so he got one as soon as he heard about it. He also had the McCoy gullwings and Cheyne’s star fin.
I started reading about the star fin and sailboat keels, and took what I saw then added a Downing bulb instead of winglets. In the mid '80s I had a Downing board with his Bong fin. It was a great board and I think the fin helped make it great. I figured the winglet is fixed at a certain angle and fins are never at the same angle. I figured that it would cause drag or other affects. The bulb should pass through the water better. It looks like Mr X is using a similar tip on his fins.
I guess it’s time to try some of the stranger things I’ve got stashed away.
What exactly is the idea behind these? Is it supposed to rise up and plane on the middle part only when you’re just trimming and be faster because of that?
He really did looked like he was nursing that board through turns in that video, like if your fins is too far up or too small and you’ll spin out without being gentle. Wonder how it’d ride with more fins or a bigger/more raked single, or just set further back
I don’t think the video does it any justice. Just seems to lose speed off the bottom turn and then just stop in the pocket. But, there is a great podcast where the guy from SurfSplendor interviews marc andreni and talks about them. I was totally enthused by his discussions about it. But after seeing he video I just thought, nope?
The central deep single is supposed to act like a hydro plane creating lift and speed, and the edge is supposed to allow the board to maintain this hydroplane in less than perfect surface of the wave conditions.
and also allow the board to lean over onto the rail with real ease? more suited to trim and set a line I guess.
The twin with the edge may transition from a single hydroplane into a double and v out the tail. Maybe that makes it drive better???
But as I said that clip just didn’t make any impression on me?
I’ll stick to experimenting with side cuts and funky bat tails and big curved belly channels based on the Golden ratio and different glassing, etc etc.
Edge boards may be awesome but I try too many things already. I’m so pumped on my last three boards i just want to work on those designs.
BUT THERE IS JUST SO MUCH COOL STUFF OUT THERE bahahahahah!
Skarkcountry, I think I’ve talked about this before. I got Lani’s one day at about 10 to 12 with only a few guys out on a dawn patrol. One of them was Bobby Owens. That wave by far and away is the best I’ve ever had. Watching Bobby surf it was not unlike watching Cheyne surf. These types have such control and power that they come off effortlessly. The making “the difficult look easy” as Bill states. I agree with you on MR’s style. Hakman was another for me. Can’t get past the squatting monkey look but they both surf exceptionally well. Cheyne is like Jocko… I don’t think I ever saw them out of place. Ever. Watching Jocko drop into a BOMB slipping into a switchfoot and just driving that wave with no flailing or histrionics is a memory that I’ll hold on to. Sure got lucky in the cat bird’s seat living in Sunset. I’m very grateful for being allowed to share that. Aloha.
