Compare and contrast the design and riding characteristics of these two types.
I’ve ridden a wide range of '70s and '80s shortboards and longboards from totally retro logs to contemporary “high-performance” designs over the past 50 years but have almost no experience with either mid-length eggs or Liddle-style hulls.
What are their strengths and limitations in terms of wave type and size?
School me.
Thanks in advance…
He is my take but limited wisdom, I have one of each both 8 ft long, the hull is a cooperfish and the egg is by Bing its a Maui Foil a purist may not call it a real egg but it's close enough, both boards are single fins.
I am not a big mid length guy but I have an interest and enjoy playing around with them when the waves and mood is right. The Bing is a good all round board, which you can surf hard and strong if desired and handles a variety of waves backside front side no problem, all pretty standard it can be pivoted or rail turned. Not much good in small weak waves or hollow sucky waves, I like it best in head high to a bit over and a reasonable wall, it rides rides very smooth and fast.
Ok now the hull - I aint no hull guy and this board was my first experience, I am in Australia and generally there isnt a culture of the hull surfing at least not in the last 25yrs. I watched the clips of California riders and it took my interest, so I got myself one and what was delivered was a trip, all edges angles and flats and belly's.
Now the riding of these is well like if you were surfing with people you didnt know they would think you were probably learning even if you had surfed for 30 yrs. Because with a hull if something could possibly go wrong it will, it will humiliate you and humble you into the ground time and again, and every so often it will give you a glimmer of joy.
If you like to do big moves steer clear of the boards, but if you live near a nice peeling point break that is on your forehand and you want to cruise along at a very fast clip, and you surf very delicately and agile, the wave surface is smooth so the edges dont catch. Well those 3 days a year when all that lines up you will come away a very happy man, your mates will wonder why because they were just watching and you werent doing much, but you were feeling things that cant be conveyed to the non hulled hounds.
Hulls and for introverts, eggs for extroverts.
dropknee- hulls feel way different than standard boards due to design concepts. they connect to the wave rather than skim along on the face. definitely more sensitive- ideal wave is a point, but they can be ridden in anything with some degree of success. high speed trim, rail-burying bottom turns, roundhouse cutbacks tend to be the style. going vertical, airs and such not what the design was intended for.
Thanks for the input, guys.
Have been watching some of the old, early '70s hull footage on U-Tube. Pretty low-rez, but it gives you an idea.
For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLQigW6RYYo&feature=relmfu
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edited (by Huck) to add...
[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLQigW6RYYo]
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Looks like jumping back and forth between a hull and my current quivver of longboards would not be a very smooth transition. Am about to pick up a 7'6" egg, which will probably be a better fit (we'll see). Already have one specialty longboard (a retro nose rider: flat rocker, 50/50 rails) in my quivver which requires major focus and a conscious change of approach when I ride it. All my other boards have more contemporary rails/rocker/foil, making for easy transition, one to another.
Am thinking now that a mini Simmons might be a better candidate for me than a full-templated hull. I'm interested in something shorter and snappier to augment my current selection, but at my age (64) need more volume than most contemporary performance shortboards have to offer.
If you like lots of rocker and 13" tails and cutaway fins and “snappy” I wouldn’t guess that you’d like how a Simms surfs at all. Those boards require a much stronger approach to turning than what it takes to turn a shortboard tail with little fins. Even the rocker would mess you up in the conditions you’d be surfing it in. If you’re serious about a Simm type board you might consider borrowing one before you buy so that you understand what you’re getting into.
As I see it and from your description it sounds like you’re looking for what a funboard does. Seriously. Narrow tails, lots of rocker, multi-fins, etc… If you were more into traditional longboarding then a wider singlefin or 2+1 egg would be the logical transition and the hulls would be a step further than that. But for aspiring to do the shortboard thing the funboard is the bridge between your HPLB and a real shortboard. IMO.
Where do you surf? If you have a lot of small, clean, lined up waves, you might really enjoy a hull. It's not a forgiving board, but when you get that straight, bladed rail engaged in the face just right there's a feeling unlike any other board. Slicing! Definitely requires some effort, though; and an ''adjustment'' in approach and technique. For instance, if you stomp on the tail to turn, bad things happen.
I shape both and the differences are so profound as to render them unrelated, even though the outlines are similar.If you want something you can ''ride like a shortboard'', do a tri-fin egg with contemporary rocker.
Some people swear by displacement hulls while I swear at them. I hate them and feel they are a step, no a giant leap away from performance surfing. Hulls suck litterally; still some people like that sucking feeling. Hulls suck, and the people that think they are all cool riding look most of the time like they are under water. Nobody rips on a hull; at best they ride them winding out in first gear.
All that remains is for someone to tell our OP that he needs a 7-6 minigun if he wants to rip.
I think it’s worth noting that there is a lot of hype going on at the moment where hpsb are being marketed as having ‘displacement hulls’ or ‘modern planing hulls’ for a board that have a rolled entry or maybe a bit of vee in the nose. This is total cods wollop and it just confuses the general public.
I pretty much scoffed at the whole mini Simmons concept when I first saw a couple of people walking around with them at the beach. Then I saw somebody RIPPING on one on 5'-6' walls when I was in San Diego a couple months ago. Couldn't believe how much more speed he was generating than 98% of the rest of the crowd (who were riding more standard HP shortboards). That got the wheels turning and forced me to reconsider my initial, snap judgement (which was unfairly based on board appearance alone).
Then I found the clip linked to below. Now, granted:
a)-Lowers is has qualities far superior to that of your average beachbreak wave.
b)-I don't have TW's reflexes, limberness or innate athletic ability
But DAY-YUM: don't this thing look fun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZOBzF4FPvo&feature=fvwp&NR=1
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edited (by Huck) to add...
[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZOBzF4FPvo]
“If you’re serious about a Simm type board you might consider borrowing
one before you buy so that you understand what you’re getting into”
Sound advice, gdaddy. Before I swoon to much over YouTube footage, I need to face the reality that an extremely talented rider in quality surf can make ANY board look easy to ride. I’ve seen young hotshots make alaia riding on lined up peelers look like a cakewalk as well, but certainly can’t imagine a geezer such as myself being able to pull THAT off, especially in ho-hum beachbreak.
BUZZER: Reality check…
[quote="$1"]
Compare and contrast the design and riding characteristics of these two types.
I've ridden a wide range of '70s and '80s shortboards and longboards from totally retro logs to contemporary "high-performance" designs over the past 50 years but have almost no experience with either mid-length eggs or Liddle-style hulls.
What are their strengths and limitations in terms of wave type and size?
School me.
Thanks in advance...
[/quote]
How old are you?.......after surfing for more than 50 years.........
That is a great video. One thing that stands out for me, other than the beauty of the bottom turns, is that, to me, it shows that short,wide boards with thinned out rails work really well to combine volume for paddling and wave catching, but also let the board sink through the turn. Obviously, great shaped wave and great surfer help.
What?! Man, I am trying to get this one done. That slow-mo vid feels like a st(r)aight (aight?) shot of adrenaline motivation. Love that vid.
Here is my outline.
Got some skins cut out today for my first kook box mini.
Are minis hulls?
Go for the egg for all around versatility. I’ve never ridden a Liddle so …
Eggs? Love um. Really love egg shapes and feel so comfortable on them from small to big juice. Eggy type boards are basically my go to boards for the typhoon swells here. The only drawback to eggs could be trying to get out on big big days when you have to bust through a few sets where there are no piers, points, channels, etc. Some people grumble about that, I just go anyway. Like pulling a horse it is … but I’m still smiling.
[quote="$1"]
...I've ridden a wide range of '70s and '80s shortboards and longboards from totally retro logs to contemporary "high-performance" designs over the past 50 years
[/quote]
[quote="$1"]
How old are you?.......after surfing for more than 50 years.........
[/quote]
[quote="$1"]
...interested in something shorter and snappier to augment my current selection, but at my age (64) need more volume than most contemporary performance shortboards have to offer.
[/quote]
Or you can mix it all up and do a twin fin Simmons-style early 1970 California Twin
This is one of the two collabaration boards from that other forum. It was shaped by Allan Gibbons and is pretty fukking awesome, even though it DOES NOT surf like a modern day surfboard or a Mini Simmons or a Fish. The closest thing I can describe it to is like a traditional hull but much more forgiving and turnable.
My $.02 on your original question is basically a rehash of what others have said. If you want something easy to surf that will work in tiny conditions and up go for a midlength egg. Put the widepoint back and keep it a single fin so you can get your hipster on but pack it full of volume for grovel. If you want a whole different trip and have access to a point go for a hull.
Thanks, all: great input. As I said, I'm about to pick up a 7'6", 3-box egg, which should tell me a lot about my geriatric fantasy of riding shorter boards again and allow me to test the design with several different fin configurations (FU-type center box, Future sides).
I keep in top physical condition for my age, but still: there are limits to what can be demanded of this old carcass...so I'm about to test them with a design that's "within reason" rather than trying to jump onto something totally extreme (such as a 4'11" Simms). Once I see how THAT works out, I may attempt to procede further back down the size ladder...or not.
Keep your comments coming: I'm diggin' it!
More (full-frame-speed) mini Simms porn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmLbxvGrUos
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edited (by Huck) to add...
[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmLbxvGrUos]
[quote="$1"]
...I'm about to pick up a 7'6", 3-box egg, which should tell me a lot about my geriatric fantasy of riding shorter boards again and allow me to test the design with several different fin configurations (FU-type center box, Future sides).
I keep in top physical condition for my age, but still: there are limits to what can be demanded of this old carcass...so I'm about to test them with a design that's "within reason" rather than trying to jump onto something totally extreme (such as a 4'11" Simms). Once I see how THAT works out, I may attempt to procede further back down the size ladder...or not.
[/quote]
Hey dropknee, I think you will be happy with the 7-6. I have several boards in that size range, and find them a great alternative to my longboards, when the waves are 3-4' or bigger. I'm only a few years behind you, but getting back into surfing in the past few years after a long time away, I'm having to re-learn a lot, including what board shapes and sizes work best for me now. Oh yeah, and what can be demanded of this old carcass (lol, well put).
By the way, Huck, thanks for putting the videos I linked to directly into the thread: I don’t know how to do that.
Pretty sure Dane has ridden Liddles…like to see some footage of that…maybe the “Poolman” will come forth!
roger