ENDORFINS..... free fin giveaway.

General Discussion
1

For the millions of wooden paipo riders out there, I have 2 sets of twin fins to give away. No cash, no postage, free.

Eef gets a set of quads just because he’s a nice guy. but the other four new fins,( 2 sets of 2 ) are available.

They are basic fins for scientific fun.

2mm aluminium,

6.5" X 2.5"

0 deg cant, ( but can be changed with a hammer ),

D-shaped so you can test the shape in both directions.

Drill your own holes to suit yourself but they are best ( only) fixed onto a wooden board.

Ive been testing this set of basic D shape fins for 2 or 3 years, moving them up and in, back, asymmetrical, reversed, where-ever, for the fun of it and learning what effect a simple shape will have.

Theres a plethora of fin arrangements and variations from the past to try and new ideas are quick to test too.

There’s heaps to learn and because they are easily altered you can move the fins (esp. toe-in) between waves to get some real fin knowledge really quickly.

And its a shitload of fun for a middle aged man to be on the cutting edge of surfing experimentation, hence ‘endorphins’.

And Ive had some great and unexpected “style” comments from other surfers, which is good…!

Learn something new or confirm your long held ‘fin-theory’ beliefs with a free shot of ENDORFINS !

Its cheaper to send these within Aust. so I’m initially looking for ‘paipo people’ within Aust. first, but if I get no response within several weeks, I will happily send them overseas.

Please post here first to secure a set and then you can email me at BrettCMSmith@gmail.com for fast delivery.

SF.

2

I have to ask because that exact fin temp and size has been on my mind in a reversed mounting for a couple of years now–how do they work, when mounted reversed, that is, with the more upright leading edge?

That one too. All thee olde interestes of bidirectionalism, see.

3

Janklow, I purposely chose that D fin shape because its not a modern, ‘cutting edge’ kinda shaped fin but it has been used decades ago and is an acceptable version in both directions…

I think I need Bill Thraillkill to drop in here >>>>> and pass on the virtures of the REAL D fin to start the conversation,

and then I can add what it does in a prone board , as I’ve observed…

4

Yeah, I been back-of-mind thinking on that D fin connection too. Paging BT.

But, um, you can say what they feel like compared to mounting them the regular way? More lift? Quicker stalling?

5

Janklow, Lift ?..stalling…?

Great questions !

Its late here and I will get back to you with a more detailed analysis tomorrow.

SF

6

how do you make those fins ?

what are they made of ?

i have been trying to figure out how to put fins on a paipo for a while and that looks like a good system.

7

SURFFOILS,

That is one hell of a request. State the ‘‘virtues of the D fin?’’ Probably the formost of its’ virtues is that it provided directional stability, and directional control, to a degree that was not previously possible. The skilled rider could dictate the position of the board on the wave, within the limits of the equipment of the time. The fin shape, displayed in your photos, is very like the long base, shallow depth gun fins of the late 50’s early 60’s period. In the ‘‘nomal’’ orientation, with the shallow end in the lead, you would use ‘‘normal’’ effort in initiating a turn. With the same fin in the same position, but reversed, with the greater depth at the leading edge, there would be less effort required to initiate the same turn. Is this helpful?

8

Bill, thanks for your info, its exactly what Ive felt on the reversed fins but I didnt know how to say it.

When I start an idea / thread like this I always look for precedence and having Swaylocks for fresh ideas, intelligent feedback and having real shapers like yourself available to offer guidance is great ! Theres no other way to get so many eyes onto new designs, thanks to all of you, honestly.

To answer janklows question from yesterday,… positioned in the normal direction, the fins response is what we are all used to… a slow initiation of hold/grip followed by an increasing resistance as the board is tilted and progresses through the turn until there is a sustained feeling of hold. So my description is about how the fin feels throughout a turn based on the physical feedback.

In the reversed direction, I agree with Bill that “theres less effort to initiate the same turn” but I will add that I feel the fins in the initial phase of a turn, are quicker to turn, and the board does turn quicker, but have a reduced resistance as the turn progresses.

So the board / fin makes a swift and easy entrance into a turn but doesnt deliver a sustained hold. But thats on a skinny ply paipo whereas on a solid longboard the total outcome would be different.

Im just describing the nature of that particular fin attached to a very flat test craft.

Ive tried fins on this board up to 18 inches long and as low as 2 inches high, but I can say that elongated fins feel too slow / muddy / confused in their response ( in this particular application) and short fins, < 2 inches high, did almost nothing.

Am I being clear or not please?

Surfkid, 2mm aluminium is cheap as chips so if theres a metal working place, caryard or a spare hubcap/garbage bin lid lying around just bash it flat, cut it out and bend it in a vise with a hammer or two.If youre hip with plastics you can soften a piece in a BBQ and make them that way.

The fins here are just under 10 square inches in area but could go up to 20 and still use the 2mm Al., imho…

SF.

9

thanks

i will try making some soon

10

Hang on there Surfkid, if I dont get any answers from the initial offer then you’re in with a chance for a free set from me. Apart from Tom Wegener I dont know of many people who ride solid wood paipos / alaias in Australia.

Im making a compsand CF / ply one for bgreen, but they’re the only 2 paipo-people in all of Australia, as far as I know.

Maybe you could make a basic paipo first and see if you like the ride…

Got any plans/ shapes/ ideas?

SF.

11

Awright, so that’s about what I figured in the normal mounting positions or close to them, so now–actually, originally–I’m wondering about moving them back very close to the corners, still reversed…like where a normal fin would tighten the board up unacceptably…and do they have toe-in?

thx b

g

12

G, I hadnt thought to try them in that position, so I did this morning.

3" off the tail and just 1/2 " in from the rail.

I didnt test them with any toe-in.

In the reversed orientation and with my weight centred over the fins at the back of the board they turned smoothly and still had the same ‘quick to turn in, but no sustained grip’ feel.

With my weight in front of the fins they quickly turned but slipped easily out of turns ( understeer) and on steep faces had bugger all hold. But it is a shallow fin.

Each fin seems to have a set of behavioural characteristics,

so it appears to me that, (in order of influence )

its paramount to select the right shaped/ sized fin,

then its the relationship between the riders position/weight and the fin,

then its the positioning of the fin on the board.

Am I being dense and is all this common knowledge ?

SF.


13

I have this idea that they need more height at the rear (as reversed mount)

a more upright curve coming off the board would hold (redirect) more flow (lift/hold/etc)

Did thoe se words that make sense?

14

janklow, Im sure they could be altered to perform better if this is what you mean?

              direction of travel >>>>>>>>

Im just testing how fin shapes behave on a basic test board and then moving them around to look for how it affects the board.

The modern flexible boards have shown that previously I didnt need to scrutinise my rockers so carefully and rails can go from 4 in thick boards to 1/2 in and still have the same shape, so whats going on there?

Im keen to make a board with a variable rocker next and I have my suspicions that rail shape require investigation as well because I can see that theres a lot of new ground to be explored there too.

SF.

Eef, Fins are in the mail.

15

can’t wait till mine arrive!! As soon as i have some results i’ll post 'm here!

16

I got my fins from SURFFOILS in the mail yesterday! It took them about a week to travel halfway around the globe from Australia to Holland. Not bad eh?

So thanks a lot Brett! Now i’m going to hack out a basic paipo, oil it and fiddle around with the finplacement. Yiiiiiiiiihaaaaaaaa!

As soon as i have some results i’ll post them.

greetings,

Eef

17

That’s what I meant, B–sorry I missed yr post before

18 
   Thats cool Janklow.

And thats cool too Eef, glad you got them, I was worried they might ‘disappear’ in transit or whatever. Have fun mate, they are a real learning tool, even if they are basic, but thats probably a good place to start.

I’ve had this free offer open to Australians for bloody weeks now with no takers so far, so if there are any people any where who would seriously use a set of two aluminium fins on a paipo and would like me to send them free to you anywhere on Earth, then now is the time to put your hand up here first and then send me an email or PM. They dont go on a standard surfboard or bodyboard at all, a wooden paipo or alaia or olo is needed.

If no-one is interested, I’ll be moving from quad experiments to hexxers/sexxers/sexettes ? ( 6 finners)

SF.

19
Quote:
0 deg cant, ( but can be changed with a hammer ),

Classic. Reminds me of hit any key to continue.

20

When I was a kid, 11 or 12, we would play a game called “Satan’s bloody game of death”. After blackball we would see how many people we could run over with our “boogie” boards. We got the idea from the movie “Death Race 2000”. Some of my friends put those after market plastic fins on to their boards because they left red welts on people. I can only imagine the damage aluminum fins would cause.