Like to hear any feedback from long term owners & users of Surftech or Acme epoxy boards? Ride? Quality? Worth it?
i’ve had a surftech model T for about 2 months now. i absolutely love the shape, but i hate the material. for me, the board is too light and too bouyant. it takes a couple of tries to get used to it, and until you do, it is quite frustrating. it doesnt behave or react like anything you have ridden before. the boards are very “corky”. if you turn to hard, the board will sometimes pop out of the water. catching waves and staying in them is trickier at first. to walk the board i found that you have to walk down the center of the board (as opposed to staying on the inside rail), otherwise you rise up out of the wave. mine also behaves much differently on the nose. overall control is just plain different, and you have to make all these slight adjustments and have even more control that usual. as far as the boards being ding resistant… well i havent ran into anything or hit any rocks or lost my board and somehow i have 3 big cracks on it. another thing to know about the boards is that if there is any wind, bump, or other surface condition, forget using the surftech. they bounce all over the place and you cannot control them. so… that has been my experience. hope it helps. any other questions or specifics-feel free to ask. -steve>>> Like to hear any feedback from long term owners & users of Surftech or > Acme epoxy boards? Ride? Quality? Worth it?
Okay,how about the shortboards like the M-10s ratboy models? I would like to give one of these a try,or the Jeff Clark gun?Herb.
I have an ACME 9’2" longboard and I really don’t like it much…no drive behind it as it is just too light. Getting to the nose is way sketchy as well. I bought it for the girlfriend to learn on, being very light, I thought she would like it better and I would have an excuse to drop $$$ on another board. Honestly, I would not make that purchase again if I had the opportunity. Nothing beats a good HANDMADE longboard…heavy or not! I’ll never stray again.
Thanks Todd. I received the same response about the weight element from Steve. I think I agree with the drive/weight factor of these epoxy boards. Have you experienced difficulty when surfing bumpy conditions? Also, how has your particular board held up under normal use?
Thanks Todd. I received the same response about the weight element from > Steve. I think I agree with the drive/weight factor of these epoxy boards. > Have you experienced difficulty when surfing bumpy conditions? Also, how > has your particular board held up under normal use? Perhaps molded epoxy boards would feel and work a whole lot better if their EPS core was replaced with a handshaped polyurethane blank, at least one stringer, and the epoxy laminate outer skin was replaced by fiberglass and resin… then they`d really have something…
So far I’ve read that epoxy boards are too weak, too light, too buoyant, and act funny. What is it about epoxy that causes all these things? I’ll draw a parallel. Lots of new cars are way more fuel efficient. Some of these cars are economy cars. They use their efficiency to save fuel. Some of these cars are sports cars. They use their efficiency to produce more power. Some of the new breed of expensive sports sedans do both. Take it easy on the accelerator, and you have an economy car. Goose it and you can beat most cars on the road. With improved technology, manufacturers can use various efficiencies to produce products with many more operating characteristics, or expensive products which span operating characteristics. An epoxy board can be strong, and weigh approximately what poly boards weigh. You get all the “drive” and momentum that you’re used to. Or epoxy boards can be lightweight, and have comparable strength to poly boards. You can use high tech composite layups to make surfboards stronger and lighter than poly boards. For “buoyancy”? I haven’t heard so much complaining about how light so many throwaway poly potato chips are. I’ve heard many complaints about how easily they break. Epoxy boards don’t flex as well. There’s no getting around it. But I haven’t seen that complaint mentioned here. For poor operating characteristics, lots of boards ride poorly. Lots of form and surface characteristics can cause a bad ride. Foam and glass composition have nothing to do with a bad ride. I use cheaper material on my epoxy boards. I make epoxy boards which are stronger than equivalent weight poly boards. It works. I love my epoxy boards, some more than others. But the better ones have better shape. Kinda strange to hear good shapers totally overlook the fact that board shape is the most important performance characteristic.
So far I’ve read that epoxy boards are too weak, too light, too buoyant, > and act funny. What is it about epoxy that causes all these things?>>> I’ll draw a parallel. Lots of new cars are way more fuel efficient. Some > of these cars are economy cars. They use their efficiency to save fuel. > Some of these cars are sports cars. They use their efficiency to produce > more power. Some of the new breed of expensive sports sedans do both. Take > it easy on the accelerator, and you have an economy car. Goose it and you > can beat most cars on the road.>>> With improved technology, manufacturers can use various efficiencies to > produce products with many more operating characteristics, or expensive > products which span operating characteristics.>>> An epoxy board can be strong, and weigh approximately what poly boards > weigh. You get all the “drive” and momentum that you’re used to. > Or epoxy boards can be lightweight, and have comparable strength to poly > boards.>>> You can use high tech composite layups to make surfboards stronger and > lighter than poly boards.>>> For “buoyancy”? I haven’t heard so much complaining about how > light so many throwaway poly potato chips are. I’ve heard many complaints > about how easily they break.>>> Epoxy boards don’t flex as well. There’s no getting around it. But I > haven’t seen that complaint mentioned here.>>> For poor operating characteristics, lots of boards ride poorly. Lots of > form and surface characteristics can cause a bad ride. Foam and glass > composition have nothing to do with a bad ride.>>> I use cheaper material on my epoxy boards. I make epoxy boards which are > stronger than equivalent weight poly boards. It works. I love my epoxy > boards, some more than others. But the better ones have better shape.>>> Kinda strange to hear good shapers totally overlook the fact that board > shape is the most important performance characteristic. Noodle, In all seriousness, your epoxy boards aren
t mass-molded and laminated under heat/pressure, and each is custom handcrafted, right? Could this be where some of the differences exist between conventionally built resin/fiberglass polyurethane, mass-molded epoxy/EPS and custom fabricated epoxy/EPS? Also, Im curious to know if they have similar resonant qualities when finished/cured? Dale
Don’t want to add more fuel to the fire about epoxy…sure agree about the flex factor. Sometimes they have a “dead feel” to them. Its not bad but different than what I’ve grown up with(i.e., standard resin/glass boards). Okay, here goes. Since the discussion is headed somewhat towards custom shaped epoxy boards verses molded ones…what are your opinions on Patagonia Surfboards based up in Ventura? Keep the discussion going this is giving me a lot to think about! Thanks!
Perhaps molded epoxy boards would feel and work a whole lot better if > their EPS core was replaced with a handshaped polyurethane blank, at least > one stringer, and the epoxy laminate outer skin was replaced by fiberglass > and resin… then they`d really have something… >>>> A molded epoxy board will never feel the same as a hand shaped polyurethane foam blank /polyester resin hand layed fiberglass surfboard. For those of us that have a short memory let me recall some other epoxy boards that were supposedly going to replace the standard hand made board . How about the Hansen Stratoglas,or the Hollow W.A.V.E. molded board(if you got a hole in one it would sink).prior to these examples perhaps someone has fond memory’s of an early popout.Yes ,its true these early attemts were made from standard polyester resins and foam. I won’t mention these new molded boards by name ,and for those of you that own one and enjoy riding them , have fun. However, the next time that you want to ride the same board as Rat Boy,Jeff Clark, Bill Stewart, Bob McTavish, etc. ask yourself if these surfers actually ride these boards as every day equipment. Looking at many of today’s posts regarding this subject it appearr that all is not what is being claimed . I think this should sum it up, “you can fool some of the people all the time”, I think you can fill in the rest. sk
Hey Mitch - Please check the archives on this. I think you will find many different opinions. Patagonia has a couple of positive elements worth considering. Although they have a catalog of stock shapes, I believe they will do custom shapes within reason. The boards typically have two or more stringers on anything mid size or longer. The lack of stringer is IMO a disaster waiting to happen with the Surftechs. I know the guy who does the epoxy repair for the local Surftech outlet and I can tell you after seeing with my own two eyes that they do break. So do standard boards but Surftech markets the durability factor in a big way.
it doesnt behave or react like anything you have > ridden before. the boards are very “corky”. if you turn to hard, > the board will sometimes pop out of the water. catching waves and staying > in them is trickier at first. to walk the board i found that you have to > walk down the center of the board (as opposed to staying on the inside > rail), otherwise you rise up out of the wave. mine also behaves much > differently on the nose. overall control is just plain different, and you > have to make all these slight adjustments and have even more control that > usual. another thing to know about the boards is that if there is any > wind, bump, or other surface condition, forget using the surftech. they > bounce all over the place and you cannot control them. Do you feel like it’s the low weigt/bouyancy of the board that cause these problem or the board being stiffer then a regular board? I’m just thinking if the board is to bouyant(sp?) or lightweight you could make it thinner or glass it heavier and the problems would be gone. I’ve heard people complain about epoxy boards riding different and I suppose it’s related to the board being more rigid the a regular(that’s what I’ve heard). How much does the board weight compared to a regular polyester board of that size and how much stiffer is it? Regards, Håvard
Since the discussion is headed somewhat towards > custom shaped epoxy boards verses molded ones…what are your opinions on > Patagonia Surfboards based up in Ventura? Doesn’t www.pointblanks.com make the boards for patagonia? Bdw. I couldn’t find any surfboards on patagonias webshop the day I checked, have they quit marketing them? I’m considering using eps and epoxy for my first board project since surfboard polyester resin is impossible to get here in Norway and since a clark foam or simmilar would cost me around $100 included shipping from GB. I’ve seen a lot of projects on the web using this for sailboard buildings, so it should work. I guess the core is hard to shape tho… regards, Håvard
Do you feel like it’s the low weigt/bouyancy of the board that cause these > problem or the board being stiffer then a regular board? I’m just thinking > if the board is to bouyant(sp?) or lightweight you could make it thinner > or glass it heavier and the problems would be gone. You would be correct. This means that epoxy/EPS enhances possible riding characteristics, or tremendously enhances the strength of your surfboard. It’s up to the boardbuilder to harvest these advantages.>>> I’ve heard people > complain about epoxy boards riding different and I suppose it’s related to > the board being more rigid the a regular(that’s what I’ve heard).>>> How much does the board weight compared to a regular polyester board of > that size and how much stiffer is it? I think some of the complaints about Surftech riding characteristics come from their shape. Surftech molds wood veneer over foam, then glasses, I think, under vacum. Certain shape characteristics must be compromised to limit the curve in wood veneer. The wood will only bend so much. When you slap a poly board on the water it goes “bonk”. When you slap an epoxy board on the water it gows “whap”. The EPS core feels mushy, but doesn’t effect carving. Epoxy’s lack of “flex” limits how you can spring off a lip, or even spring out of a quick pump, very important to performance surfers. That’s the difference. I got into epoxy board building the same way, saving the price of shiping Clark blanks. But the epoxy building process made me develop design skills like rocker design that most other board builders only tinker with. The only way to find out about epoxy is to try it. If you need material, shaping, or glassing advice on your epoxy board, I’ll be glad to help.
I have two 10’ Harbour Banana bisects. One is a regular poly board and the other is an Acme Boardworks Epoxy so I can compare apples to apples. First off, I travel a lot and the bisect makes traveling with a longboard a breeze. Secondly, traveling with a longboard is very tough on the boards and they get beaten up by gorilla baggage handlers who apparently despise surfers. As for comparisons, the boards are exactly the same in dimensions, rocker, nose concave, nose rails, and weight. No difference between the boards. They float the same (equal weight), paddle the same and perform the same. No difference other than the sound they make when paddling. The biggest difference is the toughness of the epoxy. My poly board is looking pretty used with pressure dents, glass cracks, stress cracks, etc. The epoxy is tough, no pressure dents, cracks or anything. Very tough board that should outlast the poly board by years. I also owned a R. French 9’ H.P. Surtech. That board was super tough and look like a new board when I sold it. I also got a very good price for it. Quite a bit more than I would have gotten had it been a poly board with normal wear and tear. So, from my vantage, the epoxys are tougher, hold up better, last longer under similar circumstances and hold their value better. 2 Thumbs Up from 2LeftGoofyFeet.
I think the main plus for epoxy/styro boards is the increased buoyancy and thus increased paddling speed. It is a fact that an equal volume of styro-foam is more buoyant than urethane blank. Concerning stiffness, or lack of flex; I think this is actually a good thing. (When a board flexes, energy is absorbed (lossed) by the board.) As far as ride characteristics, strength and durability; there are too many variables (combinations of materials and shapes) to definitively say what lay-up produces the best results. On of the most alarming, not yet mentioned concerns for using epoxy (especially for the home builder) are the potential health risks. As it turns out some large percentage of the population is or can be allergic to the fumes epoxy creates. A professional boat builder told me, that one exposure while not necessarily causing a reaction can sensitize a person to the allergy causing a reaction on subsequent uses. The same builder had this happen to him. He was hospitalized with severe throat swelling after having been exposed to the fumes and after having initially used epoxy without a problem. (and yes, he uses a respirator) In the same breath, I also know of people who use epoxy without incident. So who knows& But, this aspect of epoxy is definitely worth educating yourself about. An easy solution to this problem would be to use Vinyl Ester resin, which displays similar strength to epoxy while remaining less brittle and far less toxic. The only problem with Vinyl is its brownish tint and lack of UV resistance. As far as UV resistance is concerned; I understand that this can be mixed in. As far as the brownish tint; we will either have to get over our own vanity or lobby the resin makers to make a clear version. For me, I have found a happy alternative in ISO/Ortho type resin. Its tough without being brittle, no bad reactions and it is basically clear. Although, it is more work to sand. Just my two cents&
Hey Thomas, Got a question for you. I have a friend who owns an epoxy board. A Patagonia specifically. Its a few years old, yellowed like epoxy tends to become and he would like to sand the board down and paint it. What type of paint would you suggest? And, what would you suggest to lay as a gloss coat over the paint? Thanks!
Havard - Yes, “Point Blanks” for some reason stopped using the “Patagonia” label. Chouinard family still involved using the same materials and techniques. As far as I know, the only manufacturer that systematically tested various foams, stringers and lay-ups for stress analysis. I think they still sell blanks. URL is listed below and web site tells the story. http://www.pointblanks.com/
the surftech boards DEFINTELY to not flex as well. i have really noticed there is a HUGE difference in flex every time i go up to hit the lip, do a floater, or something of that nature. WAY TOO STIFF.>>> Epoxy boards don’t flex as well. There’s no getting around it. But I > haven’t seen that complaint mentioned here.
the surftech boards DEFINTELY to not flex as well. i have really noticed there is a HUGE difference in flex every time i go up to hit the lip, do a floater, or something of that nature. WAY TOO STIFF.>>> Epoxy boards don’t flex as well. There’s no getting around it. But I > haven’t seen that complaint mentioned here.