Charlieukusa I now want the Rynolox sandpaper, your experience with it sounds awesome! I’ll search for it soon…
…
Do not have a Harbor Freight in town. Next time I am near a Harbor Freight I will have to check out those stain pads AquaG.
The microfiber applicator pads from the auto parts store worked much better for spreading the sealer evenly.
Reduce viscosity by warming the resin a bit (careful as too much will make it cure faster!) or look for “infusion resin” this is formulated as low viscosity resin and works beautifully if you want a thin coat.
Update:
I think I will try the foam wax/polish applicator pads (not sponges) next time. Although I got even sealer spreading with microfiber pads, I got several “microfibers” in the sealer coat – removed by Scotch Brite pads though.
Allowed the second coat of Behr sealer to dry for 40 hours. Started in with a gray Scotch Brite pad (ultra fine) under my shed-dweller orbital sander. The gray pad was too fine. Dropped down to a maroon Scotch Brite pad (very fine). The maroon did the job.
Removed all luster with the maroon pad then finished off with the gray pad.
This concrete/tile sealer technique worked well. Fast, simple, easy and looks nice enough for me.
I think it may be possible to refine this method a little further. Behr sealer may also have other build applications: many possible experiments …
My thanks to McDing for another Sways pearl.
Just to echo/enhace the Behr Sealer process from Acqua/McDing/Stoneburner.
After sealing about 30 boards with Behr (still on the same gallon, mind you), I think I have finally honed in on a process that gives a good result (this is with Resin Research epoxy):
Prep: Sand board to 220 for clears and 320 for colors; touch up any significant exposed weave because Behr WILL NOT make exposed weave go away. It will “seal it” but won’t make it invisible.
Application First Coat: I use the round applicator pads from Harbor Freight (same as Acqua). Use just a little sealer. Medium/Firm pressure, just cover the whole board and rails QUICK and make sure no drips on rails or underside. Use the minimum amount to cover the board. The stuff drys quickly in a thin coat so do it fast.
Application Second Coat: Only need to wait about 15 minutes for first coat to dry. Apply second coat same way as first. Thin, fast, medium/firm pressure, wipe away drips.
Scotch Brite: Stuff drys in 15 minutes. Don’t need to wait much longer to buff. Maybe wait 30 minutes if you want. Start with Scotch Brite Maroon. Grey is too fine. I found the Mirka equivalent in a 6" disc that works great on a velcro Ferro sanding pad (soft pad): http://www.abglovesandabrasives.com/servlet/the-Mirka-Abrasives-%26-Tools-cln-Mirlon-cln-6"-Scuff-Discs/Categories
Usually I stop with the maroon, but for colors, I’ll follow with the grey just to go one step smoother.
Very simple and actually quite therapeutic, this final step in finishing a board.
I went with 100 followed by 150 grit on the hot coat and then sealer since that was what Loehr did with the Spray Satin Polycrylic in his Epoxy 101 video. Seemed to work for him. I have been using RR Kwik Kick epoxy.
After I screwed up by shaking the jug of sealer for the first botched application, I decided it would be wise for me to go to the Behr website and read their product recommendations:
Application:
*DO NOT THIN. Stir or shake before applying.
*Use product when the surface and air temperatures are between 50-80°F (10-27°C). Do not apply in direct sunlight. Do not apply to wet surfaces or if rain or heavy dew is expected within 24 hours.
*Apply a thin coat using a nylon/polyester brush, 1/4” - 3/8” nap roller, high quality pad applicator or a high quality pump sprayer with an adjustable tip at a spread rate of 200-450 sq. ft. (19-42 m2) per gallon. Spread rate is highly dependent on surface roughness and porosity. If sprayed, backroll for uniform thickness.
*Allow first coat to dry 4 hours, then apply a second coat at a spread rate of 350-700 sq. ft. (33-65 m2) per gallon. Additional coats (no more than 4) may be added for a higher gloss and added protection.
**Dry Time**
*Dries to touch in 1 hour. Longer dry time required in cooler temperatures and in higher humidity.
***Floors may be subjected to light foot traffic after 24 hours. Allow 72 hours before repositioning furniture or subjecting surface to heavy foot or automotive traffic.**
*Park tires on corrugated cardboard for 14 days after applying product.
*Wait at least 30 days before cleaning with a mild, non-abrasive liquid detergent.
I did not want to cut too deep into sealer that was not fully cured. It looks like the cure is pretty scratch resistant after 72 hours. So I decided to go for the middle ground between 24 and 72 hours and went with 40-48 hours for the Scotch Brite abrasive finishing
I got a nice, very fine matte finish with maroon followed by gray at 40-48 hours -- very pleased with my first time results.
I will experiment with the Scotch Brite finishing at times between 24 and 72 hours. I am considering a maroon pad first pass after 24 hours on the first coat, then go with the second coat and maroon + gray at 36-48 hr after coat two application.
I see several other possibile applications for this Behr water-based acrylic sealer** ...**
[quote=“$1”]
I went with 100 followed by 150 grit on the hot coat and then sealer since that was what Loehr did with the Spray Satin Polycrylic in his Epoxy 101 video. Seemed to work for him. I have been using RR Kwik Kick epoxy.
After I screwed up by shaking the jug of sealer for the first botched application, I decided it would be wise for me to go to the Behr website and read their product recommendations:
Application:
*DO NOT THIN. Stir or shake before applying.
The way I read those instructions you ARE supposed to shake before use. I always do. Don't have problems AS LONG AS YOU LAY IT ON THIN. In my shaping room (about 70F) it dries to the touch in 15 minutes. I don't scotch brite between coats. Only scotch brite after the 2nd coat cures. Again it's dry in about 15 minutes, but you can wait longer, although I think 24-48 hours is excessive. You are just removing very tiny surface zits with the scotch brite, not "digging in" to the surface. Once you are done scotch briting, then I guess it's good to wait a day or two before getting it wet.
I believe you are right. I thought I saw a comma betwen Do Not Thin and Stir on my first quick read. I shook it up pretty good the first day so I am sure it stayed thoroughly mixed for the next couple of days while I used it. Pretty sure the fine foam applicator pad will give me good results next round.
My experience with just dried sealants (only a few hours) is they tend to be a little softer than if allowed to dry for several hours.
I am thinking that with a thin first coat of sealer, a thorough once over with maroon could give a nice smooth base coat (knocking down small first layer zits) with finer grooves for the second coat of sealer to fill. I could be wrong. Only one way to find out …
I’d love to hear from the pro glass shop guys who use Behr sealer on how they do things. I know many of them use it.
As McDing said, he suspected they were re-packaging concrete/tile sealer and retailing it as their “secret sauce.” He tried Behr, it worked and then spread the word.
Actual process/methodology used by the shops?
Secrets, secrets, secrets …
It would be easy enough to whip up multiple 1" x 12" x 24" poplar board test panels. Base coat and hotcoat with RR epoxy (without FG cloth). Sand and then treat with Behr sealer, using different application approaches/methods. Plenty of information could be generated in a couple of weekends.
One gallon of Behr sealer will be more than I could use, test panels included, in several years @ $19.00/gal.
All talk and no walk…Stoneburner…
…If you want to talk the talk you need to walk the walk. Post some photos big guy…
…of your awesome work…with Resin Research…or is just the normal “research”…on little slabs of foam and wood…in the woods…away from the beach.
???
This is how I used Behr concrete sealer shadow man, 10 square feet per surface.
Maybe you can make a substantive contribution to the discussion at hand. Tell our fellow Sways members how the real surfboard builders, like you, use Behr sealer for a matte finish Ray. Protect them from me.
Some do not need pictographs for communication.
Gutenberg invented the printing press to communicate knowledge, ideas, technology to all humankind.
I use words with limited or no graphics to communicate ideas, technology and concepts for a living . Words have kept me gainfully employed for several decades now. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it …
I can speak and amble without pictures. Can you?
You can shop at Walmart and Harbor Frieght online…if you have a credit card…and a real address…
Hard to learn how to sand a surfboard from words on a page…can’t learn this stuff from a book…and I can’t teach you over the internet. Sand a few and you will learn…
so Stoney? build any boards lately? your brain knows what to do but your hands lack the skills. big time.
I am using a backyard dust collection system…I no longer use a “standard” sander like the one posted in this thread. Not as fast but much better in the long run for a small operation… Of course StoneBurner has never sanded a surfboard with a 7" pad or a smaller pad with dust collection so his comments don’t really matter…
For people that have never sanded a surfboard or a car or a barn…throw down a little cash and buy a Video from a Pro like John Carper or Jim Phillips…
Hi stingray, i use same sanders (rapid orange 6) (called aeg here) connected to vaccum. With right grit (in general coarser than with rotatives sander) I find it’s a really effective tool for sanding. Tried bosh turbo gex 150, it’s the killer tool…
I sand with quality 3M paper. Turns dust into gold, it’s that good.
Buy 3M products…help me make gold.
Buy the way…the way to get those ugly brush marks out of the Behr sealer is to throw it into a airless…and spray it. i can see those ugly ass wipe marks from here, I’d hate too see them up close.
Why is everyone so afraid of a spray gun around here, or are you guys just lazy?
Board look good, just commenting about the crack wipe
Ray, my special Shadow Stalker, it is unlikely I will post pictures at Sways of boards I build/built as long as you are a member. I owe neither you, your pack nor any member proof of what I do/have done.
You speak/write as if you know me and what I have done/do. Can you document or substantiate what you say about me? I have never met you and never care to. I am sure this does not trouble you any more than it troubles me.
Ignore my input. Do not ignore. It does not affect me.
I offer input about topics/techniques I have some knowledge and/or ideas about for those who might be interested, not those who believe they are surfboard building deities. I am confident intelligent members can decide for themselves whether or not my discussions are of value.
I have learned, used and adapted advanced technologies I discovered by reading the simple written word. Centuries old masters and geniuses have taught me with their words – I am fortunate they could write.
Believe. Do not believe. It does not affect me …
For many, it is not too difficult too effectively describe a process/technique with words. Perhaps it is for you Shadow Stalker. That is unfortunate.
However, you have done an excellent job of evading discussing the technique/process for using Behr Low Lustre Concrete/Tile Sealer to create a matte finish on a surfboard. This is what I was discussing with Jamie and the OP. The OP did state he wants a matte finish. I mentioned a process that was communicated to me by McDing via the written word alone – no pictures (his words worked well enough for me). I used McDing’s words with a reasonable level of success for my first try.
Perhaps you are unable to speak/write/teach about using Behr Low Lustre Concrete/Tile sealer for a matte finish because you have never done it. Maybe you just have difficulties with civil interactive dialogue. Or maybe you just have difficulty answering simple questions. If you are more comfortable with pictures, please feel free to post a picture essay about how you have used Behr Low Lustre Concrete Sealer to create a matte finish.