ok, say i really wanted to get that shine that poly provides, but want the rest of the benefits of epoxy.
would it be possible to do my lam with epoxy and use poly for the sole purposes of a gloss coat and shining it up?
anyone done this?
Check this post…
The main issue with this is that you will only get a mechanical bond out of the deal. As far as i’ve heard, it will give you problems down the road eventually. If it’s something you end up doing anyway, scuff up the epoxy REAL good. I’m pretty sure all you’ll get is negative feedback on this. Also, there are plenty of posts about this, just do a search.
Check for an epoxy gloss post by maxmercy – he used the gloss epoxy from surfsource, and his results were great.
Hi -
Epoxy after a certain period only provides a mechanical bond as well. If you fill coated with epoxy and wait a couple days, the chemical bond is nil.
There is an epoxy product that was formulated to accept poly hot coat and gloss. I have not used it.
http://www.systemthree.com/p_sb_112.asp
In any case, I’ve had decent bonding with poly gloss over coarse sanded epoxy fill coat… so far. I’ve also experienced delams between epoxy coats after waiting too long and underestimating blush factor in cold weather.
Epoxy is great glue. Poly is lousy glue. Epoxy is very flexible. Poly is not very flexible. As the board flexes under load while surfing the Poly will not contort with Epoxy and thus the two materials are very prone to separating. With this said it follows that asking Poly to stick to Epoxy is a dead end street. Do it if you must but don’t have great expectations.
Getting a shine on Poly is about using fine buffing compounds and friction to smoothen the surface and get it hot enough so it’ll smear super smooth but not so hot as to burn.
If you try and polish Epoxy at High speed it will melt and do so at a much lower temperature than Poly so you end up with a super dull surface cause it’s not chemically suited to produce a shine when it smears. Getting Epoxy to shine is about cold polish. By this I mean gradually working down to finer and finer abrasive grit until you have a surface that can be waxed with a copolymer to give it a final clarity and brightness.
Some short cuts can be very effective at times but mixing these materials is IMHO not a functional one. Just treat the two resins as though they are completely different animals and you’ll be miles ahead.
Gone Surfin’, Rlch
Poly hot coats are a no no. No mater which system of epoxy you use.
Polyester glosses are fine.
I just laminated a comp-sand with epoxy from Fiberglass Hawaii and then layed on a thick sand coat of UV resin. I waited about 45 mins after laminating the board then brushed on a nice thick layer of UV sanding resin. I won’t get to work on the board until the weekend, but I plan to do the top the same way.
I have done 2 other boards this way. I haven’t noticed anything bad yet, but I’m not making these for anyone but myself, so it’s not a big deal.
I like the UV resin seal/sand coat better than epoxy. No little air bubbles, and it’s easier to sand. I think the short cure time of the UV resin may help. I’ve also done rail build ups with the UV resin over epoxy to get a nice hard tucked under edge on soft rails.
Just be careful of getting poly resin onto styrofoam, it will cause a melting reaction that won’t stop for a long time. It turns the foam into a cotton candy like material.
Poly hot coats eventually peel off. Can happen in a month or in ten years, I’ve seen both. For the home builder this isn’t that bad a thing. You’ll only have to answer to yourself. But no one who’s doing this as a pro should use poly hot coats.
kintex r104 surfboard epoxy
huie
kinetics recommend it
although i cant see how they can prove it
they would have to have developed the resin many years ago for conclusive evidence of a tested product
and most of us here know that it came a short time after RR was available in aus
most surfers are more concerned with cosmetics and image
rather then environment and strength etc
so i dont have a problem using it from now on
especially if the customer is going for the wood because of “the look”
greg i think if the lifespan of the average surfboard is only 6 to 12 months it doesnt really matter that much
PE over epoxy: After the lam, fill/hot coat with epoxy; sand (I take it down to 80 or 100 grit); wipe down clean with denatured alcohol, gloss with PE resin.
I had no problems doing this. I saw some beautiful SUP boards at Carve Nalu’s shop glassed by Ed Searfoss using this method.
D
i rest my case done right the benifits outweigh the risks
huie
Ive done epoxy lam and poly hotcoat on numerous boards with alot of them lasting a long time. With good prep of the epoxy ( sanding / cleaning with denatured alky with a non lint rag) Ive still got boards in the quiver that are 8-10 years old that I still ride with no signs of epoxy/poly bonding failure.
On the other side, Ive had a few boards where the poly and epoxy have separated due to flex and the result was spider cracking and/or complete sections of exposed lam where the poly has shattered off. So yes, it can be a problem.
I will agree if the boards are for yourself and the given “life” of a board, its a method that can be used with good result as long as you take your time to prep. For mass production, Id stay away.
Since not all boards fall apart in 6 to 12 months this isn’t true. When a customer throws a six month old board at your feet and is pissed because you took a short cut, it matters. It’s a matter of pride in what you build. You build it without short cuts because the first board you bought was (hopefully) built that way. There is no feeling better than a new board. Customers deserve your best. Again, no PE hotcoats. Glossing is OK.
now that funny you should say that greg
as i see where your coming from
what do you say to the grommet whos 1200 dollar firewire has filled with water
and theres no one around who can repair it
a bit harder then slapping on some new filler coat
or what do you say to the guy thats got an eps board with out inserts around the finboxes
and his board has filled with water from fin box leaks
i dont see it as a short cut
i see it as a valid method for good cosmetics
there are two resin manufacturers that reckon its ok
and while im sure it has some drawbacks
i think that if it holds up for a few years of heavy abuse then its valid
now i know a guy that goes through 6 poly boards a year
do you think he would care if after a couple of years that a board for the same price showed some sign of separation of the fill coat
i think a poly to epoxy bond to be at least as good as a eps to corecell bond
and a epoxy to painted corecell bond
When I worked at Clyde Beatty's glassing his epoxy Rocketfish, the entire process up to and including the hotcoat, fins, etc was done with RR Epoxy. The boards were then glossed with Poly. I never heard of or saw any problems. Poly sticks fine to RR epoxy. I can't say how well it works with other epoxy resins.
look to be honest
im dubious to using at as a fill coat
how the hell do adtech aus know anyway
how many surfboards have they made
and the product has only been available for a short time
as yet untested
but i dont see it being any worse then other manufacturing practises
adtech chemists in NZ dont rekon its a go
and suggest that its not a viable application
interestingly enough
the boards dont seem as dent resistant either
but at the end of the day
if the customer wants cosmetics then that what they want
can i just ask why you want to put poly over epoxy in the first place?
it makes no sence to me.
if all you want is a high shine and some uv protection, just finish the board in automotive 2 pack clear.
it polishes up great and has a higher uv protection than all resins…
thats what i do anyway…