I remember reading something like this on Sways for Volan.
On swaylocks BB30 only show hand lam, vaccum for wood and cork, peelply only for cork. He doesn’t have blush because he use blushless resin. Most modern 2:1 epoxy use amine free reactive and don’t blush anymore. I don’t had blush problem for a long time. I use epoxy for 35 years first one’s blush each batch now never in normal weather. Cheater coat give some material to clean, grind of when prep for next coating so easy to contaminent free surface with scourer.
Most time we try plastic over full lam without vaccum, ended with resin/fiber wobbles, not well saturated spot, nothing really good. If you want to put something over lam use peel-ply and full saturation.
bb30 used Green Room epoxy. I use Green Room.
I have gotten amine blush with Green Room.
bb30 used vacuum for glass over paulownia veneer on the BB he made for me.
Also used vacuum on the glass over cork BB he made for me.
As I recall, he made several vacuum bagged paulownia veneer surfboards with glass over veneer.
Pretty sure he said he used to use Resin Research without Additive F without getting blush too.
I have considered this.
But retail store PE drop cover for painting is a lot less expensive than peel ply.
Cheater coat goes on while your lamination is still wet(not cured) . As soon as you have laminated the cloth,got everything the way you want it, tucked rails etc. immediately, as soon as your are done pour off about 1/2 or less of the amount you used to laminate. Part A and Part B throughly mixed. Pour it down the center of the laminated blank and laminate it a second time. The purpose of the cheater coat is to insure complete wet out. No dry spots. A lot of times on the first go round there are dry spots, crystal looking cloth etc that go unnoticed to an untrained eye. A second coat takes care of the stuff you miss and will be unable to do anything about after it hardens.
If you do a decent lamination there won’t be any divots or imperfections. That’s not what a”Cheater Coat “ is for. Divots and imperfections are called ding repair. A cheater coat serves only ONE purpose; To insure a complete “Wet Out”.
Jimmy Lewis and Matt Kinoshita should get day jobs. They’ve got toooo much time on their hands.
Maybe I got it wrong.
But I thought a thin squeegeed coat of resin over a newly tack-free lamination was to give enough resin for a quick 150-220 grit sand to smooth out the surface without cutting into the cloth before a final coat.
I wouldn’t want to be pulling a quick coat of resin over a laminating coat that has started gelling.
Nobody said pour resin over jelled resin. Myself and others have tried to explain when and how to use a “Cheater Coat”. The OP thinks You should wait 4 or 5 days and them apply it. I give up!!! Forget I ever said anything about a cheater coat. Break out your friggin’painters plastic and roll your hands over it . I’m done trying to explain a simple process that many professional glassers use up and down the West Coast. Fine!
Never said you were wrong.
Was saying maybe I’ve had it wrong all along.
With the exception of glassing hard angles, I have always said glassing with epoxy is not my specialty. But I still like epoxy better than PE. I have a pretty solid grasp of the chemistry of epoxy.
I do lots of things pros would never do.
Painters’ plastic drop cover is just an option that works for some. Has nothing to do with a cheater coat.
Never claimed there is one true path. Certainly not what I do.
Relax McD
For sure there is not one way to do it well, if basics are respected: enough resin to glue fibers on blank, fibers with fibers, to waterproof and to sand flat. If your tech allow you to do it well that’s good.
The plastic sheets over fiber was the standard way we used to build airplane model wings then we add vaccum bag over and that was better (xps core with glass/carbon/kevlar).
I never have enough good results on eps core to continue this way.
My go to nowadays is seal blank with epoxy mastic paste, stick fiber on it well stretched, then lam over with just enough resin to soak in fiber without pools. Let kick a little then with a new batch cover, cheater coated, to have a clean full saturation.
Zoom near nose on this photo show what i think it should look:
1 Like
I have seen the term ‘cheater coat’ also used here on Sway’s to describe rubbing a dry surface (like a cured lamination) with a thin coat of epoxy in the hopes that once it soft sets, a heavier coat can be applied without fisheyes, holidays, skipperdoodles, etc.
1 Like
Yes cheater coat can describe this too. For me “cheater coat” means squegge everywhere a thin coat of resin.
When do at end of a dry lam process when resin have thicken a little it allowed to fill all bubbles and porosity. This way you can have a well saturated lam with just enough resin. This is one part of the process for hand lam light fibers that float over resin.
When do on tacky (B stage) up to set green resin, cheater coat is a good tech before main brushed layer for a good thick sanded coat.
So for me cheater coated is a “tool tech” for epoxy user.
1 Like
@lemat When you say “dry lam process,” are you referring to when you apply cloth to a surface that has been pre-wetted with resin first?
Light fibers that float as in aramid?
If so, very similar to but slightly different from a process I have been looking at.
Dry lam is when you scrap off resin so it’s look a bit dry.
For laminate light fiber that don’t take resin very well an effective process is: lay resin on blank stick fiber on it, dry lam over then cheater coat.
1 Like