any one in production who has experiace sanding epoxys regurlarly? bert , cmp, greg? we use FH currently cause we cant get gregs, if we filler with epoxy the board is very hard to sand. i mean use 8 sheets of paper compared to 1 -2 sheets per pu board. the paper actually wears out fast…we try many brands/quality paper doing 8+ sand jobs… i know the board will be much stronger but is this just another cost and time factor i will encounter
With Greg’s resin and his sanding additive, I use a sheet of #100 for several boards and re-use my fine paper many times over. It isn’t gooey, sands to a fine dust and if it loads up my paper, I have one of those raw rubber blocks to clean out the dust. The one thing I notice is, the resin resists sanding because of it’s natural tendancy to be elastic and it’s cross linked bonding. I finished an 8’4" under another label today for a female customer, I wanted to surf it myself, so strong, so light
FD
A 9 foot longboard will take 4-5 sheets of 100, 1 sheet of 150. but we do a final sanding after the filler coat then urethane spray and use 1 sheet of 320 or 400 to take the urethane imperfections off.
The town and country factory uses FH also and they let the board sit for a few days prior to sanding. They didn’t mention anything about using more paper. I will ask them about it next time I am over there.
I have never done enough PE boards to know I was seeing the profits go to the sand paper. 35 cents per sheet for 100 grit.
cp
pc @ 80, 1pc @ 120, 1 @ 150, 1 @ 240thanks for that, on a 9’ pu we use 1/2 = $1.22 x 1200 boards per year = $1464. however on the 6’4" FH epoxy we used 3 @120, 4 @ 150 ,2 @240 = $3.15 x 1200 boards per year = $3780. found it to be time consuming and materials consuming. im using this as an example also. if were to change over production to epoxy… contract sander wants more money, paper/glue/machine/power costs go up… production time gets longer… the contract glasser also says that the boards tied up another day in the glassing bay. and he has to change boards to racks unless i rent more factory space… if the styrene hasnt got to him he will be ok but im not sure how many order forms will get mixed up in the stryene daze pu has left in legacy…just an example of why its not practical to completly switch 8 boards a day production yet!
Howzit?!? I’ve been sanding my RR lams with 1 sheet of 150 Hermes paper to level out the laps and patches, and to take a little of the shine off. Then hotcoat with a full cap of add. F each side. Lightly sand with 150, then full sand with 220, and then finish with 320 and 400. I’ve found that slower speed sanding, cleaning the paper frequently, works good for me. Additive F is the stuff though. I don’t use any more paper than with p.e. It seems true that production-wise, epoxy takes a little more care than p.e., but the plusses are outweighing the negatives, especially when I encounter someone sanding a catalized p.e. hotcoat. Stinky! Although you can’t really bust 'em out like with p.e., I think that it’s a case of different material/ different technique. Hard to tell a professional sander that though, I’m sure that all sanders are touchy anywhere in the world! Aloha…RH
I feel the extra effort it takes to do a styro/epoxy more than outweighs any detractions. I have swung my board around and clipped the car by accident, no shatters! NONE
By the way Rick, Keith Swanson is finishing a fishing board I shaped for him out of bead foam, he says hello
FD,
Do you go to the sandpaper manufacturer directly? Seems like you use enough to get wholesale price from manuf and not the middleman.
All you need is post cure room/rack area. Don’t expand just make out of existing space. Let them sleep over night at 125 degrees F for 4-6 hours, timer turns off heater, sander shows up and has eight boards waiting for him.
Go slow, sounds like you are busy enough as it is.
cp
yea thats why the price has to go up , your creating more value , but also have a few extra costs …
you shouldnt have to use extra paper …
gregs additive makes them cut like the greenest polyester …
greg is on his way down here , i will drop around if we have time dave …
were in the process of organinsing gregs resin down here …
one noticable thing that cmp alluded to is the full cure …
if epoxy isnt fully cured , you fight the sand job all the way …
also a slower speed on the machine actually makes sanding faster …
like jim alluded to the polymer chains are longer , a fast machine just spins on the top as the grit just cant get hold of a chain and pull it out , a slow machine can cut deeper , really grab the chains , you dont really get sanding dust like poly , more like sanding chunks …
polyester chains are so much shorter so you can attack it fast and knock off more smaller particles …
but your right dave , youll be fighting the system for a while …
things are not the same as they were 10 years back , everyone is feeling the pinch somewhere …
if your sander isnt happy he can come up to our place and sand epoxy boards??
but what youve described is one of the biggest reasons epoxy hasnt taken off in a big way , that bit of effort needed to get around a different approach …
once you have a routine , its a routine job …
what most crew have done to date is sacrifice product quality for ease of manufacture …
regards
BERT
back to the same point …
as long as you put the price up , there is no issue with costs …
youve added value to the product , if your sander wants an extra 5 bucks , tack it on the price…
your customers now have a choice as to what they would prefer …
they will ultimatly decide which direction you go in …
for me , its just not worth my time to build a polyester board , someone can go anywhere and get one , some people pay ,some wont .
if more people decide they want to pay, and you make a few extra dollars a unit on them , then it becomes uneconomical to build boards for those who wont pay …send them somewhere else and concentrate on what gives you the best return , if you have the ability to supply unlimited quantities of both then do both…
if you can only build 40 a week and each of those can earn you a bit more because youve added value , then it would make sense to take the higher margins …
if no one pays , then its same old same old …
it will really depend on what your customers do as to whether you make a complete switch or not …
if you look at a scale of the possible materials a board can be made from …
conventional boards are made from the cheapest possible resins and foams from a cost point of view , but the principals are the same , they are cheap for a reason …
i could build a bullet proof board , last a lifetime …
3000 ??
it may sit there longer ??
some people buy on quality , some on performance , some on brand , some on price …
youll soon see what has potential …
locations make a difference …
i used to sell boards in one area , full of , wealthy people …
lady would walk into a shop , maybe pick out a few nice clothing articles for her hubby , then say oh while your there just throw in that 1000 dollar board as well …
other areas where crew would have to save for a year , to get a board …
you may find by offering a choice you attract different customers …
if they sit on the shelf or no one excepts the offer of paying more for more , why push something on them …
they either want it or they dont , if they have a choice …
regards
BERT
Quote:
pc @ 80, 1pc @ 120, 1 @ 150, 1 @ 240thanks for that, on a 9’ pu we use 1/2 = $1.22 x 1200 boards per year = $1464. however on the 6’4" FH epoxy we used 3 @120, 4 @ 150 ,2 @240 = $3.15 x 1200 boards per year = $3780. found it to be time consuming and materials consuming. im using this as an example also. if were to change over production to epoxy… contract sander wants more money, paper/glue/machine/power costs go up… production time gets longer… the contract glasser also says that the boards tied up another day in the glassing bay. and he has to change boards to racks unless i rent more factory space… if the styrene hasnt got to him he will be ok but im not sure how many order forms will get mixed up in the stryene daze pu has left in legacy…just an example of why its not practical to completly switch 8 boards a day production yet!
Is that US or Australian dollars?
somebody chipped in earlier in the thread quoting 35cents a sheet. i dont know where they are from but i rolled with thier figures as the example.
Dave, others,
Coming back to sanding epoxy…
What pad to use? Powerpad hard 150 mm, or 200 mm, i guess the bigger pad goes hand in hand with bigger surfaces/boards? What do you pro’s use out here? When is the medium used, and when is the soft used?
thanks for any tips!
I’m not a production sander but I have sanded enough epoxy to know the difference between RR & Add F and just plain epoxy. And the difference in ease of sanding is not small…
“I feel the extra effort it takes to do a styro/epoxy more than
outweighs any detractions. I have swung my board around and clipped the
car by accident, no shatters! NONE”
I agree! A bud of mine took the liberty of running over 2 of my boards… on seperate occasions. No major foam, glass damage at all - the fin boxes poped out a little, minor scratches. 2# EPS 6/4 decks 6 bottoms.
lokbox has a really good write up on his sanding process in a thread somewhere…given he’s a sander/polisher by trade, I paid very close attention to the tips he dropped.
Boiling it down to the process I used for the last couple of boards I did…
I use the Hard PowerPad to take down the deck and bottom (flat-ish surfaces) with 180…really quick and light just to break up the surface of the epoxy.
Then I put some 220 on the hard pad and hit the deck and bottom to clean up the 180 marks.
I put that same sheet of 220 on my soft pad and use that on the rails…REAL LIGHT…avoid the nose, tail area.
Take the 220 off the pad and do the nose/tail by hand.
I repeat that process for 300, 400, 500 and beyond.
Hard for flats, soft for rails and curvy parts (nose flip)…the sensitive spots are all done by hand.
Wear the paper down a bit on the flats and then reuse it on the rails and finally for the spots you do by hand.
Don’t rest the sander on the pad and don’t knock your sander off the table…I’ve borked my hard pad that way.
Power Pads and a proper sander/polisher drastically improved my finishes.
eyfoafy!
ill have to look for that post of lokbox… remember any words in the subject?
so, you bought the hardpowerpad and the medium one?
and you go from 180 to 220 directly?
good glassing skills mate!
ill post results after sanding my longboard [compsand, 3390 grams before glassing nice round tailed Quadded performance shape !!]
Add some wax to your filler. That’s about all you can do, it will never sand the same.
I was too cheap to buy the 200!
hahaha…the sander, even on the lowest settings seems to do a lot of work…especially when you’re as hamfisted with the tool as I am.
I can’t wait to see this longboard.
I think this is the thread…lokbox’s post is on page three…there’s a lot of useful information in this one from many different participants.
super old thread, but…
What is greg’s additive?
what do i ask for in here in australia when i contact the supplier?