Eps longboard help!

General Discussion
1

Hi All,

Hoping to get some experienced input on my final shaping venture for a little while

I’ve really got into it the last 6 months and shaped some great fun boards. But my situation is about to change and all being well I’m purchasing a house which is a half hour walk to my regular break.

Now late last year I shaped a 9’8 pig with a slightly blunt nose, a proper glass job with twin stringer, HD foam insert, resin tail block and a gurt big D fin. It was one of the most interesting boards I’ve ridden and worked perfectly in smaller beach breaks, think kneee to waist, pivot and step with the odd cutback.  Above that it had incredible hold and drive, and gave so much confidence to get tip time, but the weight really put me off when it was bigger or busy. I ended up selling it after 10ish surfs and regretted it.

Now I’m looking to shape something similar but lighter and aimed at a little more tip time as I will shape anorher pig at a later date more true to form.

As per pic below it was 9’8 x 23.25 x 3.125. 17inch nose and I think it was a 16.25 tail. Wide point back, wide tail block and belly to v bottom, 50:50 rails but more eggy than tennis ball shape.

I like the look of the cj nelson guerro, bexon does a few interesting looking wide point back shapes  and I guess this has me looking more towards the modern logging, a little performance aspect mixed with tradition.

I’m also really into the thunderbolt eps builds, I hear lots of great feedback from local surfers and again it brings the modern tech to a more traditional style.

 

So, I’m thinking of a 9’8y which is only 3" thick to begin with, reversing the rocker and taking it down to 9’6. Belly with a blended concave in the first third to a little more V out the back. Slightly pinched rails and a flattish deck foil with a little kick out the tail. 1/4 bass wood stringer, 6,6x6 s glass with a 7. 5oz deck patch and 2inch cutlaps. Fin box and tail block to finish and a good thick gloss coat.

I’d use my pig template but pull the nose out a little and take the length off the tail, pull the. Lock in a little to put a bit more curve on the tail and wide point back a little further.

 

Do you think this will give it enough weight to be a nice nose rider in the smaller beaches I’m accustomed too? Was thinking of running a pivot fin.

 

As I say I really need something I can carry half hour each way with the family in tow, but equally I want to stand out on the tip till the cows come home.

 

2

I think you had the combination right with the first board.  Maybe swap out the D-fin for a more pivoty ride if that’s what you’re after.    Within reason, the weight is part of the formula, adding to the projection in your turns and the glide.  

EPS doesn’t ride like PU, either; especially in the longer lengths.   They can also get a lot heavier in no time flat if you get bumped or hit something while you’re out in the water.    

Besides, if you’re hiking 1/2 hour each way with a longboard, the lighter board is still going to be painful.    This is where using a bike as a load bearing animal for the board and all the gear you’re using on your excursions would serve you better than making compromises with the board that you’re trying to do trick riding on.   

 

 

3

Thanks for reply Gdaddy,

 

Forgot to upload pics of what im replacing! so here they are.

 

As you can see to become more nose orientated it needs a little adjustment to the template, I shaped this and after surfing it several times i came to the conclusion that my quiver requires a more traditinal pig, and a wide point back nose rider, Weird, i see the majority of tip timers aroud me are on wide point forward or more bulbous parralell shapes, but i find wider noses drive you out of the pocket in our waves,  dont think the idea has cottoned on that much yet.

I am really interested to hear some experiece with EPS as i a very keep to be greener. I can get a bike and a rack, no worries. But still keen to try eps.

Gdaddy have you had any positive experience with EPS?

 

My first ever board was an epoxy popout, i learnt to catch green waves and hear the zipper sound whenever there was texture! I have a 5’5 grovelor in eps and i really like it, however on some advice i glassed 2 layers of 4 on the bottom and it is very stiff.

3264×2448 2.37 MB

2448×3264 1.67 MB

4

That’s a nice board.  Good job.  I don’t know which blank you used or who the manufacturer was but;  You would be better served by sticking with Poly and going to a lighter density.  Millennium “Red” is what I have been selling alot of here in NW.  Lighter than their standard “Blue”.  Reformulated a couple of years ago to strengthen and less “crushable”.  The Arctic Standard is “Green”.  But you can drop to “Yellow” or even lighter “Orange”.  I have glassed these foams with a six/four deck and six bottom with no problem and minimal denting. EPS will give you a totally diffent ride.   Lowel

5

Ditch the D Fin.  Unless all you want to do is go straight off or angle into a take off.  The Fringe, Azul and Rake made by Rainbow at 9" are all recommended.  They make some nice Pivots too, if that’s your thing.  But if you want smooth turns and big roundhouse cutbacks, go with the three I mentioned.

6

Prior to maybe 10 years ago almost all noseriders used the “popscicle stick” template from the mid-late 1960s before boards when shorter.  W-I-D-E nose widths, deep and extended concaves in the nose to slow the board down for extended posing, and so on.     They’re still popular with some surfers.   

Wide point back designs have their strong points but also some drawbacks and limitations, one being they’re less forgiving for paddling position, maintaining trim and timing your takeoffs and they’re not as stable for noseriding. They’re also more limited in wave sizes - they are considerably harder to control in bigger conditions, and they do the quick pivot better than the long carve.   So riding one will affect your style.   

I like and I use EPS for certain types of surfboards, but (usually) not for eggs and never for longboards.  The lively and corky ride works well with certain designs (like a Mini-Simmons or some of the short hybrids) but it works against what I’m trying to do on a singlefin egg or longboard where I want the board to carry momentum and glide and to engage with the face.  I don’t do high performance longboards, but I’ve done a few shorter midlengths in EPS + quad fins when their riders wanted to get agressive on a longer length.   

As McDing says above, the quality of PU foam has improved greatly in the last 15 years, so unless you really are counting ounces there’s no reason to forego the use of a PU blank for most designs outside of the shortboard lengths.  Boards with PU cores are far less vulnerable to heat, they take color a LOT better, they offer a smoother ride, and they don’t become a fire drill (get it out of the water, quick) when they take a ding.   As always, shape comes first (you seem to have that figured out) but the other big factor is balancing your core with your glassing.    

 

7

Thanks guys. That blank is from South Africa, foam extra in there blue density which I think is 2.34. How does that compare to the lighter blanks your using

That think was glassed with 7.5oz volan, 10oz patches and the 3 inch cut lap top and bottom.

 

I have access to the blanks at the moment so perhaps I should remake and improve. Between covid and leaving eu blanks are scarce. I may be able to get a standard stringer Arctic alage blank too.

Maybe I should go back to the drawing board on the glassing. 6oz all round with deck patch and 2" cutllaps. S glass and epoxy perhaps

I know what you mean with the nuances. It is a strange paddle and there was no tail turns whatsoever but it did adjust nicely from the nose.

 

I’ll go for a more modern fun design, a little blended concave, and a narrower tail block

8

The difficulty in turning is due to the D-fin and being mounted all the way back at the tail block.   You gotta be directly over that fin when you’re turning.  Switch it up to a high aspect fin that’s mounted a little further forward (as per McDings suggestions above) and the tail becomes a lot easier to manuever.    

The basic plan shape you had in the orange board is a well-proven design.  You don’t want to go moving the wide point back any further for a couple reasons, one being that it will straighten out the curve forward of that wide point.  If you switch fins then you also don’t need to make the tail any narrower.   

9

My apologies Gdaddy that was supposed to read no rail turns! it really was a drop knee and pivot kind of affair

Right, ill stick with the template, fin box and a more modern fin. MIld concave to compensate the narrower nose

If i go a little thinner, say 3" thick and pinch the rails, hoepfully it will gain a little more manouverability and a little less weight,

 

Whats your thoughts on epoxy resin and lighter glass for this kind of board? Kind of against the grain isnt it

10

It’s been many years since I glassed in other than epoxy.    Epoxy doesn’t finish as nicely as polyester unless you go to extreme lengths but I’m just a backyarder so I don’t really care about trying to get a retail finish.    Aside from that, I think epoxy is just a better resin overall.  Others will surely disagree but I think epoxy is a better match for e-glass than poly, and after that there’s not much reason to switch up to S-glass unless you’re doing a light glass job on a shortboard.   I think that most board breaks are attributable to the resin not flexing as much as the blank, not the fiberglass.   

With singlefin longboards I think you actually want a little flex so adding S-glass to the equation works against that a bit.   

You keep commenting about weight and I understand your reasoning for that, but I don’t think you can engage in the compromise without noticing the effect of those compromises on the way the boards paddle and ride.      There’s no free lunch.   The board will surf and after a certain point you can have a lot of fun on most any board, but I think you will notice the difference.   

11

eps can  be made to go okay,double layer  bottom…biaxial glass is the  go, can  glass  bottom 3.5 ounce  biaxial  plus 4 ounce wrap …deck 3.5 ounce biaxial   6 ounce wrap…clear is okay …resin tint epoxy very difficult…cutlaps. no fun. …can  gloss epoxy boards in  polyester  if you want the shop polish…hotcoats are okay in polyester  if your in a  rush…presand, wash the dust off… dry it.  hotcoat

 

12

Finally have a week off from a really busy schedule this year.

After all your feedback and speaking to a few other local shapers, I’ve come to the conclusion that I need to dial in my shape on the traditional conctruction before I experiment too much! I still feel that there is a way to make a greener, lighter board, but it’s going to take some work which I don’t have time for right now.

 

I just picked up a 9’8y and once I’ve finished up the three boards I’m glossing now I’ll add to this thread with a build

13

The greenest board you can make is the one that is designed and built so well that  - if handled and stored with care - you never have to replace it.   

Pick a design you can live with, and pick a build method that you can master.   Compared to that, worrying and fretting on which resin has the lowest level of VOCs or which cloth has the lowest carbon footprint is a complete waste of time and effort.  And feelz.     

14

Nice way to put things into perspective Gdaddy. I can be a bit of an overthinker! 

15

There’s no original thinking on my part; I’m just rehashing themes we were talking about 10+ years ago when the bio-epoxies were coming out.    The difference in eco-footprints between the cleanest builds vs the dirtiest builds are dwarfed by the other choices surfers make with respect to how they transport their boards from home to surf and back again.  By whether they’re buying locally or buying boards that were built 10,000 miles away.   By whether or not they travel to surf.   By all the other gear and acoutrements surfers tend to accumulate in support of their surfing.  And by how fast surfer cycle through their boards in chasing the current fashion of the day.   

Build it to last and then keep it - that’s an eco-conscious approach to building your own.   If you’re into that sort of thinking.    

16

Another option would be using a small 2 wheeled cart to strap your board’s nose or tail to and not have to carry all that weight. When I lived across the street from the beach, a neighbor would pull his Kayak across the street that way. He strapped the wheels to the kayak and didn’t worry about leaving it on the beach.

17

Sounds like a canoe/kayak caddy.

They are available commercially.

18

Not sure what it was, but I would use something like that if I had to walk for a half hour. I’m a retired video cameraman I can tell you that you need to protect your back. Most of my peers and I have messed up backs from carrying heavy gear.

 

19

Appreciate all the suggestions!

Ruffed out the 9’8y a bit. Flattened the nose rocker a little and took it down to 9’8. Ive pulled the shape in a little and blunted the nose.

Concidering pulling the tail block in a little too, or perhaps rounding the corners a little

https://swaylocks7stage.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/IMG_20210522_140634.jpg(image larger than 8 MB)

20

I like the shape. I like the wide point, the overall curve and the tail block.   I wouldn’t change anything.  Just promise us you won’t try to run a 2+1 on it.  That would break my heart.   

But you gotta find a better backdrop for your pics.  A wall with less visual clutter, so to speak.