Evaluate my design please...

General Discussion
1

This is my first foam board of which I have a build thread going here

I broke out this second thread because I want to get some specific feedback regarding the design.

I'm getting ready to glass it so nows the time to make any changes if I can.

I know about as close to nothing about surfboard design as you can get but i'm trying to learn and I tried to put some of what I've read into practice here.

So please be frank, be honest, be brutal....

I tried to design this board for me, knowing my ability (sucks) and the break I surf at (sucks more).

I'm 5'6" and about 175lbs

The waves I typically (try to) surf on are sloppy beach break that closes out hard and fast.

A couple of things I tried to put into the board are as follows:

1) Decent amount of nose rocker to keep the nose out of the water on sharp closeouts. I tend to "go over the falls" alot so I'm trying to find a way to counter that.

2) lots of volume to keep my fat ass floating and help me paddle in quickly.

3) I wanted to make the board fast to help get up to speed quickly but I think I may have hosed that up a bit. The bottom contour of the beach I surf at is very deep and then gets shallow very quickly as it breaks on an off shore sand bar then gets deep again and then breaks again very close to shore. The waves kind of break out of nowhere and then close out quickly or dribble off to nothing as they clear the sandbar so you have to get up to speed quickly and catch them right away. Something I'm not very good at apparently. 

4) I kept the deck sort of flat-ish. I never realy understood the need for a domed deck and its a feature that I struggle with. It makes me feel like I'm standing on a log and makes me loose my balance and fall off. I thought a flatter deck would be more stable for me and also retain more volume.

5) I wanted to keep the board longish because I suck and need lots of board but I wanted to keep it short enough to fit the crappy waves I'm trying to surf. I started with an eight foot sheet of foam and cut a bunch off of it so my board is in the seven foot plus range. I haven't measured it exactly.

6) I tried to keep the rails soft, almost upturned, in the nose area and transition into harder down turned rails moving toward the tail. I thought this would help keep the nose out of the water and still alow water to release off the tail to reduce drag.

7) I pulled the tail in a bit to help with turning but kept quite a bit of volume into the tail to help me catch waves.

So alot of thought went into this even if I didn't manage to capture any of that in practice.

Here are a few shots to illustrate what I ended up with:

I think I kept my symetry pretty good

lots of nose rocker and upturned rails in the nose. The shadow line doesn't do it justice.

 

Down turned rails once you get past the nose area and a flatish deck

Lots of volume in the tail

Heres where I think I may have screwed up. I wanted to keep the board fast and longish but also wanted it to fit into the crappy waves that I surf on. I think I may have kept too much of a continuous rocker and I'm afraid that might add alot of drag. Maybe I should have left it flatter longer.instead of having so much tail kick.

The board next to it is 6'8" so my board is probably in the 7'6" to 7'10" range. Also you can see that it is stringerless at this point. I thought of a way that I can still add a stringer without too much fuss but I'm not sure if its worth it. I plan to glass with three layers of 4oz e-glass on top and two layers on bottom. What do you think? Stringer or no stringer? This is xps by the way and I will use RR epoxy.

2

The biggest thing about design is: If it turns you on…you will surf it well. Most of it is in our heads. You can take a board by any one of the top guys and if it doesn’t suit your image of a nice board you won’t be happy with it. I’ve seen guys chase the “name” boards ( Brewer, Rawson, Frye, you call it ) and still ride them poorly. You’ve got to dig the shape and looks first. It’s ALL IN WHAT WORKS FOR YOU. For years I rode a break exclusively that was a reef break that THREW from the git go, if you didn’t get in it right…you got pitched. And even sometimes when everything seemed right and you hop up to see no bottom at all…YIKES! I’m telling you this because I’m bigger than the “average bear” read: surfer and need FLOAT. After trying a few shapes mostly with the wide points forward or at center I decided to pull the hips back a bit to not quite pig but getting there. This worked. Here’s the rub, it worked for me because it seemed the right outline for this wave. I “thought” it might work…and it did. Add about a foot and 100 pounds and that is what I am. My boards tend to range from 8’2" to 8’10". You are on your way Pal, and because you have vision and the wherewithal to make what is in your head, THAT is the Holy Grail. Be prepard for a life of “tweaking” every shape you come up with. Sorry to be so lengthy. Also, let your friends ride it and get their feedback. Even if you don’t agree with them it is helpful info. Shorter rail lines work in hollow waves but not for everyone. ALL the Best.

3

looks pretty good to me - not a million miles away from the nugget i'm planning. i have no idea about the stringer - if it were me i'd be tempted to add one - good luck!

4

Wow tblank, great reply. Thanks for the encouragement!

5

Hey Blue! Haven't seen you over here before. Welcome to the dark side!

6

over 150 reads and only two replies huh?

Never knew this to be such a shy bunch.

And here I am asking for it!

7

Ha! Blue you lost me in the english to english translation on that one! I
don’t know what a git is but I’m gonna take it as a compliment until
someone tells me otherwise!

I think it was Winston Churchill who said that England and the US are two
countries separated by a common language.

8

hey squaly - just keeping tabs on you!! your similar size to me (well, 5'8 and ~150lbs) - i love my 7'6 eggy thing for learning on

its interesting to see a kind of parallel profile thing going on with it too - i find my mal very "domey" and i roll off the thing often! tblank has the right idea - its your board and you'll do well on it - i also was thinking of a laminated stringerless blank in XPS with plenty of 4oz - suck it and see, it always gives you an excuse to make another as you get your eye in

9

Squaly Howzit? That is a nice board, you need to ride it. It’s hard to be critical without knowing how you like to surf. Is it turns or trim? The only thing about going stringerless is I might recommend using “S” glass for stability. If you put this in hollow surf you might end up with a lot of stress cracks. You actually have more experience with this material than me, I’ll end up learning from you I hope. The whole bitchen thing here is, you haven’t relied on a blank co. to get you there. This build is totally in your hands. This wasn’t possible 25 yrs ago. Heck it was a Bi$%^ just trying to get a blank from a shop without them thinking you were horning in on their business. I grew up watching guys in the sixties pouring their own foam into handmade plugs but they still didn’t compete with a commercial blank. They couldn’t get the density down. Your path is easier but better. You keep going and you’ll end up knowing more about design than most.

10

If it were my board I’d thin the nose out, foiling it in forward from about 6-9".  You don’t need more than about 1" in thickness (at the most) up front - it won’t help you get into waves but it will make the board harder to duck dive.  

 

If you’re going to go stringerless it would help to go with fat laps.  

 

11

Welcome Blue!!

[quote="$1"]

if you're going to go stringerless it would help to go with fat laps.  

[/quote]

Like this?

12

Thanks gdaddy! That's the kind of stuff I was hoping for.

 

13

I would agree with your concerns about the continuous rocker. I grew up riding longboards and always looked for boards with a flat planing area 6-12" from the nose through to the hips. The flat area will help your paddle speed and get you on a plane quicker (stand up sooner). For the dumpy beach break you surf, I’d say the tail rocker will let you turn easier off the top to avoid going straight down the face on a late drop. Thats my just opinion on rocker.  The rails still look a bit soft. You wrote that they are turned down, so it could be the pictures. A mistake I made with my first foam board was leaving too much meat on the top rail. Keep the flat deck but give a second look at how the top rail will effect water flow. Lastly, if you are surfing a dumpy beack break and go over the falls regularly, I would recommend adding a stringer. You claim to be a below adverage surfer so the weight gained shouldn’t effect the performance, but could save a heart ache.

14

hey tblank, I've considered the pour foam thing. I found a place that sells two part pour foam that sets up in 3lb density.

That's the same as the old clark blanks if I'm not mistaken.

I've read that the original clark blanks were hand poured but I don't know if that's true.

Anyway, the stuffs not cheap but when you consider how many blanks you get per volume of liquid it sounds pretty good.

 

I got a quote for ten gallons of pour foam (five gallons each part) for $319.37 including shipping

That adds up to 1.336 cubit feet of liquid.

The expansion rate is 22x so that equals 29.39 cubic feet of cured foam.

That's around ten blanks at about $32 bucks each including shipping.

Thats assuming of course that you could pour the stuff and get a usable blank instead of a blob of crap.

I think my next effort will be three layers of one inch eps ala Home Depot.

15

Larimer, I'll have another look at those rails when I get home.

I did intend to make them turned down but I'm not sure how well I captured that feature in practice.

I am leaning toward adding a stringer.

I'll cut the blank in half using a chalk line and my japan saw.

Then I'll trace the inside outline onto a rough stringer that I already have prepared and cut that out on the band saw.

I'll then glue it back together with some epoxy using shrink wrap as a clamp.

It might be a trick to keep things lined up while I get the shrink wrap on but I think my rocker table will come in handy there.

16

ttblank is telling you to stick with the foam and blank method you have now.  Pour foam is an art all by itself and the fact that some of the blank companies are more favored by shapers than others should tell you something of how difficult it is to get the recipe right.  

 

I think you’re on the right track.  I also agree that a stringer might be good for this board given the circumstances you’re describing.  .  

17

Hey Squaly, a couple things, if you cut your stringer material about 3/8" thicker than the blank you don’t have such a hassle in lining up the foam. you can always trim it back after it sets up. You don’t have to make it exact thickness, just make sure you follow the curve exactly. As to the pouring your own foam, it’s a bit$%.  The reason Clark used concrete forms is because it holds the expansion down to create more density. You can’t just pour it into a hollow mold and achieve the strength desired. My next door neighbor had a nice plug made and buried it in the ground. He’d pour the foam in and quickly place the top on and pull his truck on top to weight it down and to compress the foam. He would leave it overnight before stripping the mold top off. At best it was hit or miss. The rocker table will come in VERY handy and you can cut the stringer maybe 1/8" thicker to trim less. Listen to everything and everybody. Take it all in and then do what seems right to you. The only way is trial and error with HEALTHY doses of advice. Keep Going!

18

Thanks guys.

Yeah I get the pour foam thing being a bad idea. I looked into it a while back and then decided against it when I heard all of the horror stories. Maybe someday I'll give it a go on a small scale just to satisfy my curiosity. My uncle used to use the stuff to insulate his fish lockers on his boat and I remember it being pretty easy to use. At least he made it look easy.  Right now I have so many projects going at once I can't keep up. The last thing I need is another tangent. For now this method suits my needs (although I did order a blank from the boys at Pau Hana, can't wait to see what that looks like).

It seems the consensus is that a stringer would be worth the effort so I'm going to give that a shot. When I do I'll update the progress over on my build thread so I can keep this discussion open for design tips.

19

you could always go stepped deck - thin out the rails and leave some meat on the deck for float. sounds prudent about the stringer if your tumbling off the board even half as often as me!!

Man, your a git Squaly - i'm wishing i'd left my pink 1 inch XPS sheets in one peice rather than slicing them up for Project X...

20

Blue, you wrote “your similar size to me (well, 5 '8 and ~150 lbs)”
Guess that means we’re the same approximate volume!