Ok, so I shaped my 1st board. Foiled some fins yesterday too. They came out surprisingly well actually. Just need to glass them. The time has come to officially put foam and wood and glass together. I was looking for a little help in this area. I have read the archives…I’m just looking for a more personalized answer to my issues. Keep in mind I will be using standard poly resin on my 1st attempt.
I have glassed a “few” boards. I say a few, since I just practiced with the bottom coat of glass on two blanks. I also helped my friend glass his board yesterday. Here’s where our problems lie.
#1 - I live in Hawaii…so the resin tends to gel super quick, and that’s shooting it at the low end of the spectrum with MKEP. About 3 cc in 20 oz. of resin has gone off in no more than 20 minutes. I know that the ratio of MKEP to resin should be around 1%, and im thinking the ratio we have used so far is a little low. I can’t see any alternatives at this point besides working super quick and just shooting it faster. Not really an option yet. Any advice?
#2 - The bottom (flat spots) are no problem for me. It when it comes to the rails that things tend to get “sticky”. We have been doing cut laps, but the problem for me is getting the resin to run off the bottom of the board onto the rail cloth so its basically saturated. I think I’ve tried to hold the cloth parallel to the board (that might have been the 1st attempt and I think my cloth holding hand was sticky so it started to pull the fibers) but I still get these drip and dry areas on the rail. Then when wrapping it we end up with dry spots. I tried painting in the rails while my friend did the bottom and that worked, but I want to be able to do it on my own for sure. What’s the best way to make this a simple and easy 1 step deal.
#3 - We used 4 oz. on the bottom and 2 layers of 4. on the top. I cut the bottom layer to just about the contours of the board, and the top layer with the usual overhang. In order to put on the ricepaper logo, we rolled it all back. Basted the lap also to minimize air bubbles. When we rolled the cloth back out, it was pretty dicey, and wasn’t sitting exactly where it has been. What’s the best way to do this step? We did both layers of 4 at once, and I’m thinking doing one at a time would just make the board heavier and use more resin. We definitely had a few dry spots on these laps.
That’s basically it for now. I just was hoping for some useful advice so that when I do glass my board, I avoid all of the simple mistakes. I’ve never seen anyone glass before so I’m basically flying blind on this one. Thanks in advance for you help. I’ll have pics of the board up when it’s done. Wish me luck. Couldn’t have done it all without you!
All of your problems can more or less be solved by using UV catalysed resin.
The stufff will not gel until it sees UV light, ie SUN! So provided you have the proper facility to use it, you will have near unlimited working time. Plus no MEKP needed. Thus no ratios to ever worry about
What that will do for you…give you more time to full saturate the rails. Seems ike your problem here is simply poor squeege techique coupled with not using enough resin. It’s ok to use more than you need provided that you can catch the majority of the ruoff in your bucket.
Don’t play witht he resin…poor it on and start sueegeing contantly moving the resin around to fully saturate the cloth…if you pour enough on you wil have enough to push toward the rail and have full rail saturation.
If not it’s ok to pour more on right where the rail starts to slope down. Quickly slide the squegee lengthwise to spread the resin down the length of the rail. You can do a afoot or two at a time if need be untill you get the hang of it. This is a safety technique if you can
t get full rail saturation in the initial resin pour.
UV resin makes glassign "NEAR: idiot proof. You can make mistakes and there are applications where it’s of no use…ie finboxes, under large rice paper decals, and of course darkly tinted resin, or opaque tints.
Just type in UV Resin int he archives and read away. Lots in there.
IF you don’t go that route then you will really have to master the sqeegee. And that will take many, many boards.
One more thing, you can buy lam resin with the UV catalyst already mixed in. Further idiot proofing the stuff.
I buy it from Fiberglass Hawaii. I’ve only used the Cali locations, but here is the address and number for the Oahu location
Thanks for the advice. The problem with UV resin is that I am doing all of this outside, with no real block (aside for the tent/top) for all the UV rays. Was thinking about doing the glassing at night and then using a UV wand to cure, then officially cure by daylight. There is no way to glass during the day in the absence of UV rays for me. All I’ve read says exactly what you are saying about the UV resin though. Seems like its nice and easy, and no rush to get it done before it cures. Sounds good to me, but won’t work just yet.
I was just about to head into town to surf. Would definitely come by to check it out if it works for you. I just sent you a PM but will try here too. My number is 383-9758. Thanks for the offer.
Josh, I’ll stick my neck out and say CALL ME at 591-8553 ext. 207 (leave message if need) and we can get together for a lamination session or several; heck I can walk you through the whole thing.
But: surf’s up, and I don’t like to miss it; flexibility is useful. I work 8-5 near Ala Moana and live in Kaimuki.
Answering your questions, though, for the use and potential benefit of others.
I use about 0.75 percent catalyst, measured with a syringe. I have a catalyst ratio chart on the wall of my garage. My mixing jars are clean leftover glass jars on which I put a strip of masking tape and mark oiff the 1, 2, and 3-cup levels. 20 minutes of pot life is okay for most glassers with a few boards experience.
After mixing I pour about 3/4 the catalyzed resin on the board, where it’s cooler and tends not to go off so quick. I spread it out all over the (deck or bottom) to within 2 inches of the rails. None drips off. I fold the dry rail glass over the wetted glass, squeegee any extra resin from the wet areas out to the rails, then pour just a little down the dry glass and immediately spread it with the squeegee. When one side rail glass is wet, leave it and wet the other. Then flip one side down and WORKING FROM THE MIDDLE, wrap the glass around the rails. Middle to nose, middle to tail, other side middle to nose, middle to tail. ONLY THEN, after the glass is all wet, all onto the foam, go back and work from the stringer out, get the wetness even, rails last.
Howzit OahuSurfer, OK lets see if I can help, When wetting out the rails one thing to consider is that where the resin flows like drips is where extra resin will also flow. in other words the resin will not fill in the dry spots unless you pour on the dry areas. Try laying down an ample bead of resin just above the rail and run your squeegee smoothly along for an equal flow of resin which should wet out the whole rail. I do this before putting the resin on the center flat area. Hopefully the rails are now saturated and you can squeegee the flat areas. Before wrapping the rails do another smaller bead just like the first one to add some extra resin to the rails. Now you can wrap the rails and should have plenty of resin. When squeegeeing the rails always hold the squeegee at an angle forcing the resin towards the taped deck area, this will get rid of extra resin and keep you from getting lumps in the rails. You can use one of those yellow hard bondo squeegees for cleaning up the rails. Bottoms are the easiest and decks can a pain since the resin wants to flow down over the rail due to the curvature of the deck so you have to work faster on the deck to get the even flow. Hope this helps and since some of the other goys want to help you. you should take them up on their offer. I don't know why the resin is kicking so fast with so little catalyst unless it's old resin which will do that. Another thing is UV resin will kick even if not in direct contact with the sun, I have kicked it off many times after the sun has gone down behind the mountains since the refracting UV rays are bouncing allover the sky. Aloha,kokua
... I live in Hawaii...so the resin tends to gel super quick, and that's shooting it at the low end of the spectrum with MKEP. About 3 cc in 20 oz. of resin has gone off in no more than 20 minutes. I know that the ratio of MKEP to resin should be around 1%, and im thinking the ratio we have used so far is a little low. I can't see any alternatives at this point besides working super quick and just shooting it faster. Not really an option yet. Any advice? ...
I’m sure Honolulu’s MEKP percentage is what you need. But as a point of reference, I sometimes glass in a high heat environment (85^-95^) and I use 0.4%-0.5% without any problems.
God I can’t believe all you guys who get to surf during the week…sickening… nah just envious sitting here watching the lines come from my 20th floor perch. To bad I won’t get home due to traffic till it’s dark.
Anyway…
the idea like you said is to get up at 4AM ( I do everyday) which gives you an hour to an hour and a half to set up and glass your board… Sun’s up at 5:15-5:30 AM now you could have it kick and pull the tape and still make your 6:30 AM dawn patrol session. I’m usually out at 5am home by 8am.
Been thinking about it this way (UV) alot but I’m an epoxy convert so I don’t know about going back to the poly stuff again… Love that smell though brings back alot of good hanabutta memories while it’s destroying the rest of my brain cells.
FBH Epoxy slow hardener gives you 30min-an hour max. The junk System Three stuff with slow hardener will give you like 4-5 hours before it kicks… more than enough time to do your rails.
Multiple pour batches is also another answer one for the flats/deck and one for the rails, just pull everything smooth off the top then mix your next batch just for the rails, just have everything pre-staged though.
Some guys flip the wrap up back over the deck/bottom and pour a stream over the underside of the wrap before dumping the rest down the center to squeegee out towards the rail. It gives time for the wrap to soak up resin and you can even dab the rail stream with a brush to saturate it but I’d pour a puddle down the middle first to hold the glass in place as you touch the rail material. You then flip it back over and smooth it out as you bring the extra resin to the rails. It’s a little tricky but a good way to soak the rail glass. Get those monster elbow gloves and you can use your have to flip and squeegee the rails like the JC video.
My problem for me is the spillage using the standard squeegee off the rail technique… drips end up every where no matter how much you catch in your bucket… Solved that problem though this weekend by building a 30 inch wide glassing rack drip tray.
By the way you ever get those fish fins?
Is this the board you where making them for?
Be sure to post a photo no matter how bad it comes out…At least you’re trying that’s better than 80-90% of what todays surfers are willing to do nowadays except here on sways.
First off…thanks to everyone who put in their 2 cents on this one. I have gotten some valuable advice.
So after posting this thread, I got a glassing tutorial session with epoxy and a basla sandwich board (thanks again JJR), and a great phone conversation walk through with Charlie (Honolulu). Swaylocks and more importantly its members have made this little project of mine possible.
Onelua…thanks again for those fins. I didn’t get a chance to thank you earlier and let you know I got them. I don’t think I will be putting them on this board though. They seem like they will be too big for this board (5’7").
As to all the advice, thanks again. I didn’t get around to glassing it today. Seems like I am busier on my summer vacation than when I was teaching. Thanks to Swaylocks. I think that when I do glass it (in the next few days for sure) it will come out fine, thanks to the help I have had here. The idea of flipping the rail glass up seems like it would work for sure, along with all the other things that I wasn’t quite doing correctly.
I am including some pics of the unfinished product. I was going to wait until it was totally done to unveil it on Sways, but I feel that you all should see what you are helping to create. Maybe give me some feedback on the stuff so far also. Keep in mind, this is my first time for all of it. From the buiding of the racks, to the shaping, to the fin making, to the upcoming glassing. Its a helluva lot more work than I imagined…but will also be a helluva lot more rewarding.
Thanks again. I’m sure I will have some more questions soon.
Aloha.
Josh
Ps…first time posting pics too…so keep your fingers crossed
Oahu Surfer Those guys gave you and I some great advice to glassing, the beauty of people knowing there craft !! My brother when needed would glass with first a cold pot, very little mekp, then come back with a hot batch to kick it off … sounds like the .05 ratio might be right for first passand then maybe a 2% for the final resin pass ???
Thank you for this post. Thanks to every one for their input.
Although I’ve worked out most of my glassing problems there’s always some little secret that I find on Swaylocks. Some times I pour resin onto my bondo squeege and then push that into my dry trouble spots on the rail.
...My brother when needed would glass with first a cold pot, very little mekp, then come back with a hot batch to kick it off ... sounds like the .05 ratio might be right for first pass and then maybe a 2% for the final resin pass ?????
If you’re using a hot hotcoat to set off the cold lam, then you’re putting too much resin (and weight) in the lam cloth. The lam needs to gel and at least be firm before you hot coat it. Giving the lam 12-24 hours after gelling works for me so that the lam will be hard enough for me to be able sand down the lap edges before laminating the other side. Then 6-12 hours after gelling before hotcoating. (I use tape sticky side out on my glassing racks to hold the board, and if the lam resin is not hard the tape will pull the lam’d cloth away from the board when flipping it to the other side.)
Think of it in terms of the ratio you need for a specific gel time. (Kick small batches in your temperature to be sure.) Too little mekp and you’ll get air bubbles around the edges and laps from the cloth trying to float it’s way back up and the resin trying to drain from the upside down laps. Too much mekp and… well, you know.
A 15-20 minute gel time for the lam is good. If your inexperienced and afraid of getting caught short, you could kick it for a 30 minute gel time, but you probably don’t want to go any colder than that. You could go a little hotter for the hot coat, but not much. You want at least 10-15 minutes for that so the resin will flow out and smooth up after you stop brushing it on.
don’t cheap out on the amount of resin you use. i’d say 2 quarts for a 9’6. i know the pro glasses get by with a lot less, but in the backyard, what you want to do is err on the safe side, not save 2 bucks.
after you’ve wetted out the deck or bottom, and pulled the excess to the rails and caught some excess in the bucket, but still have dry spots, rather than use a squeegee, try a 3" chip brush to wet out the dry spots and use the same brush to wet and pull the rails all the way around. as usual start at the center, and work toward the nose.
would also suggest if you’re freelapping, to go ahead and lap the rails about 2 inches onto the deck/bottom rather than trim too short.
For getting dry spots on the lap I make sure I leave a bit of resin in the bucket and after I think I’m good and zippering on deck and everything is pushed out to the rail I do my dry-lap merrygoround. I take the squeegee and scoop resin and hold the lap up with my bucket and sort of dab right above & on the dry spots, holding the lap such that what drips off drips into the bucket. So it’s basically scoop and dab all the way around. Be sure to go around at least twice and don’t doddle. Also be sure to give the areas you just dabbed a bit of time to soak up the cloth. That’s where making your way around the board twice pays off. If it’s kicking on you and you know it’s hot forget the dry spots and get what you have wet up and tight as fast as you can and look at nothing twice unless it’s completely horked. Then just turn around, mix a pint, and go back with a brush and work it in. Cut out any ‘holes’ or air bubbles of cloth that didn’t grab as soon as you can set a razor without pulling cloth (like at cut lap stage I guess)
My batches go in like 10-15 minutes which I think is a tad too quick (10 too quick/15 just right). Sometimes I glass when it’s zero outsize and I’m straining to keep the room at 70 so I hesitate getting used to cooler batches and am not comfortable/experienced enough to dependably adjust on the fly. My aim is to get good/no worries on a 10 minute lam. The kerosene heater goes out when I go to sleep so I have to aim to lam and hot coat in one day so it can come in where it’s warm at night. No aromas after hot coat shells.
