I finished a board with a yellow bottom tint the other day. came out good, screamin brite yellow. Left it in the back of the truck for a couple of hours. It faded drastically, not evenly but blotchy. Thing is, it was in the shade, no direct sun except for the 5 min drive to the beach and back. The board didnt feel hot. Even if it was left in the direct sun for a couple of hours I wouldnt have expected it to fade so.
I used UV resin and the tint was old probably a year or better. What do you think? Old tint?
Hey Kokua, not to get off the subject but I have been meaning to ask you if you glass for Dick Brewer. I know that he has the boards that he shapes in Kauai glassed on the island, and it seems like you are close to where he is in Princeville.
Kokua I saw a Brand new Yater in a surf shop that was tinted coke bottle green.They had taped a price sheet on the board and when you pulled the sheet off it was waaaay darker underneath.Thats how much the board faded inside a shop and it was only six months old.Something tells me that tints ain’t what they used to be.Anyone got any ideas on this??Bagman???
That’s what I thought too (fading fast) it was solid and pretty for a couple of weeks till I left it out in the truck. I used 1 oz to a little less than a quart. Is that too little? too much? Does tint go bad?
About the only things that I can come up with is that the tint had no UV protection in it. Where did you buy the tint? One more think tint and pigment will seperate out you may have only used what was on the top and not enough of the other stuff in the tint, what ever that stuff is. I worked at one time with a chemist and he had a lot to say about tints and pigments. I just don’t remember what it was. I will email him and see if he can tell me something, that might help.
Howzit Mmanzi, No I don’t glass any of Dick’s boards. Most of his boards are glassed on Oahu by Jack Reeves. Dick doesn’t do that much of the shaping any more and even though he lives here you don’t see that many of his boards in the water. I work with Mark Angell and Ian Vernon (Sunburnt Surfboards). I like to work with shapers who aren’t afraid to push the limits and Mark and Ian are that kind of shapers. Ian shapes boards that make me a better sander because of his rather radical bottom contours that some shapers would not even attempt. As for Mark Angell, he can shape any thing and he’s a stickler for detail’s, plus we have a great working relatiomship. Back to Brewer, most of Dick’s boards are done by ghost shapers or the computer machine. Dick is or pushing 70 years old and I think he would rather sit back and cash his royalty checks than mow foam these days. Some glassers get an Ego boost if they do his boards but in my mind glassing his boards doesn’t make you a better glasser. Aloha, Kokua
Howzit Mr. Clean, I’m with you about the quality of the tints available today. A good idea might be to add a little yellow pigment (not to much) to stablize the the color. Any thoughts on that. Aloha, Kokua
The outfit I use Diversified Materials in San Diego says that they only guarantee non-fading colors on full opaque colors. The tints they sell will fade over time. So its probably best to max out the amount of tint you use. I can’t believe your board faded out so fast, did you have an even lamination job?
WOW… I mean, WOW. That’s amazing. I would have bet money that that couldn’t happen that fast. I feel your pain. Shouldn’t the resin have UV-blockers in it as well?
What’s up with the yellow around the logo? Part of the logo color, or did the logo affect the fade? Logo under the glass right?
What’s sad is that I print out all my logo’s on an old cannon color printer, that does not use the new fancy smancy, high- cost, durabrite inks. I haven’t had any of them fade.
I used to use acrylic paint for my fin plugs, but didn’t like how blotchy it came out. I picked up a can of white pigment… a few drops of that stuff and my resin is solid white. I was amazed. Though honestly I think the acrylic better matched the off-white of a polyester resin covered blank. The tint screams white, and makes the rest of the board look… off-white. I don’t know what my point is, other than I thought resins seemed pretty solid.
Howzit rKelly, actually your canon printer may use archival ink which is what durabrite ink is. I must say that the Epson C-84 is not expensive, about $80.00 and they have one of the best price per page cost when it comes to printers. The real test is to put the lam in the sun for about 3 weeks and then check for fading. The Durabrite ink won’t fade for at least 40 years or longer which is way longer then the board will last. I did a lot of research on archival ink before buying my printer, which is used for more than personal use. Go to the lysonic web site for info. They sell archival ink for canon printers. www.lysonic.com Aloha, Kokua
Howzit Fred, What colors were in the lam? I had the same problem for a while with colors that had yellow in them. 2 ways to fix: spray some clear acrylic on the lam or cut as close to the design as possible, one thing I found was the bleeding was confined to the paper area so I close cut idea and I haven't had the problem for a long time. Also when you print don't use a heavy ink setting, what program are you using to print with, If it's one of the ones I use I can probably help. When it comes time to do the printing I use Picture it express. Aloha, Kokua
the board was for a friend who wanted his clothing logo on it. it was plain black letters, but the letters were really bold. when i glassed the bottom of the board i noticed the yellow haze. so when i did the deck, i did spray acrylic on both sides of the paper. this did help, but there was still a slight yellow haze around the logo. i guess from now on i will spray acrylic and do the close cut deal. i still have some extra paper from foamez so i will do a test run with that paper and the C-84 and see if i can rule out the printer being the fault.
have you found that different programs print better? i have photoshop, gimp, macromedia fireworks and of course MS paint. usually i just print with whatever program i am using at the moment. ill take a look at picture it express.
Looks like the pigment wasn’t mixed well. What you think is really mixed may not be. The coloring agents in pigments are solid particles which may not be ground into consistent sizes. The smaller particles can be bleached out by solar UV real fast, while the larger ones take longer. Tints have less of these particles than opaques, and therefore get dispersed more in per unit quantity of resin. If it was the tint itself, you would have more of a consistent fade rather than the streaking and darker areas (like around the lam). I’ve used opaque pigments that were over 10 years old without any problems, as long as they’re somewhat fluid and can be mixed they’re OK. Next time try using small amounts of opaque pigment to get the tint you want. Be sure to mix it well (I use a small battery operated drink mixer) and strain it. UV exposure will change the color even on a clear board. Check under a tail patch sometime.
Kokua, I’ve got to come clean here and admit up front that I’m a rep. for Plumeria/Brewer. As such I can clear the air a bit about what Brewer is doing these days. Basically you are correct about the fact that Dick does not do “production” shapes, most of those boards are KKL’ed like Merrricks, Rustys, etc. Dick shapes the team, tow and Balsa boards, which Reeves glasses. Given JR’s schedule (great work but takes time), it would not make sense to have him glass anything other than the balsas.
One thing I want to make clear is that we officially stopped the “ghost shaping” of Brewer boards two years ago when Dick bought back the rights to his name from his nephew who was having a guy named Eddie ghost shape the boards. Dick now has control over all boards produced under his name, but I’m sure there are stories out there about folks having ghost shaped boards. There is a lot to be gained by someone sticking a Brewer label on a ghost shape and selling it for more $$, but that does not mean that it’s done honestly. So buyer beware.
Also, a little known fact is that if you call Dick Brewer up in Kauai (he’s in the book) you can get him to do a hand shape for you, it just takes extra time and $$. As far as I know those foam boards used to be glassed on Kauai, but this may have changed since I was last there. Dick is one of those guys who just lets his shapes do the talking. His shaping schedule is full and he does’nt feel that he needs to prove anything to anyone. I find it hard to disagree.
Kokua.most of my yellow boards are done with yellow opaque pigment,so I end up with a semi opaque (you can clearly see the stringer).I mix the pigment with some lam resin in a separate cup and strain it through a medium mesh cup strainer into my resin batch.I always mix pigments in to a small cup of resin and strain it before using.When doing resin pins I usuaully don’t strain the pigment…just add it to the gloss resin.Pigments are tricky…in my humble opinion the pigments from boat supply shops that come in the little squeeze tubes are not up to par.Best to buy them from the Surfboard suppiers.Good pigments are thick.anywhere from Mayonaise to PeanutButter.Damn…I’m hungry…later. RB
Back in the old days, yellow pigments were made from good things like barium chromate, and or lead chromate. These are not good now, they are very toxic. The new dye that they have come out with are not very uv stable. Take a yellow note pad and put it in the sun. They are still trying to get these things to be uv stable. The dyes are the worst, and that is what is used for tints. More to follow. My chemist friend is doing some checking.
Howzit Mmanzi, glad to hear you’re a rep for Dick and I want you to know That he’s a great guy. But as for the ghost shaping,he does have some people still cranking them out. Rick Holt did them for years and just stopped in Dec. 2003 after having a disagreement with Dick. One of my shapers is still doing boards for him and since he lives down the street from me I’ve seen them being shaped as recently as 3weeks ago. Dick makes sure the boards are to his specs and that the work is top quality, but fact is he is still using ghost shapers. Dick does still have boards glassed here by John Delaney who is a very good glasser and a good friend of mine. I don’t know where you are located but when something is happening in my own neighborhood it’s pretty hard not to notice it. At least he is using top shapers to do the work and the quality is great. Aloha, Kokua