So I have been shaping for a few years now. I used to love lokbox (due to its adjustability) but since I started shaping I picked FCS fusion as my go to install. ( I have recently been seeing posts on youtube from Marcio Cole and Proctor about deeper concaves.
I have used FCS X-2 for sidebites and such. I definitly think that fusion are stronger. I think that FCS X-2 are better for setting in deep concaves and a Vee’s for getting your fin angle right.
As I said I have been trying to put more single concave through the fin cluster and out the back. One of the issues that I am having is that the fusion has wide flanges and when I set my fins to 5 or 6 degrees… (using the 5deg. grey box) the inside edge of the box often pops up over the lip of the inside portion of the route. I then have to spend 15 or so min hand sanding down the poped edge.
My questions are:
1. Would using the 9 deg. box off set the interior slope of the concave to that my resulting angel would be closer to 5 deg. without poping out the outer edge of the fusion plug? (and how to judge the depth i need to set the router at because the jig is wide and bridges the gap from center of board to rail over concave.)
2. Is it simpler to just use an X-2 plug (black round plug) so that I can move the plugs angle better by simply setting the angle with the dummy fins that are connected to the fin and taping them in place and then grinding the plug down to shape the boards contours after hot coat.
I do have trust issues with the X-2 plugs strenth. (I don’t know how to connect the resin to the top of the board with an X-2 plug) 2lbs EPS with Epoxy…I use a 1 1/8th in. Forestner bit to drop the hole a couple of milimeters below plug depth
wrap the plug in 6 oz. cloth and drop and fill. I have also placed a small disk of fiberglass in the bottom of the hole before as well. I don’t get the whole get the resin to connect all the way to the deck of the board. sometimes my boards are thick…that’s a long way to go. (also…What’s the “pattented ‘H’ pattern”?? that FCS video shows a crazy cone / column of resin going down to deck of the board when flipped upside down. it looks a bit tricky.)
Do you guys think the continued use of the X-2 has mosty to to do with heavier concaves? (yes I know they are lighter and probably allow a bit more flex) But I’m thinking concaves in relation to fin cant angle and getting the plug to sit flush with the glass.
I have noticed dispite all of the hype behind the FCS II plug… (snap in fins) and the Fusion peanut plug … that many of the pros are still using the old standard X-2 plug. Todd Proctor who is pushing his concaves deeper seems to be using X-2 plug as well in many of his new shapes.
4. Dispite all of this talk for FCS I have been thinking of ditching them for another system like future. And I guess their built in fin cant auto accomadates for concaves…but not Vee. (Probably shouldn’t have brought this up) Let’s stick with questions about FCS
The h pattern is easy a bit of pipe or a deep holesaw will do the job quickly by hand if you don’t have the fcs tool. Not installing with them tied to the deck is a recipie for failure.
I was thinking that as I wrote it. Also…if there is curve in the rail. how do you get the pipe or hole saw to run down to the deck on the inside edge. Obviously the outer edge would touch the deck but…?
90% of the shortboards I make have concave bottoms and I always use Fusion 9 degree side boxes, unless I get a request for some other system. There’s room to finesse a little more/less cant and yes you may have to make some minute adjustment to router depth to accomdate the jig plate over concaves. Unless you’re talking extreme concaves no biggie with some practice runs on broken boards or scrap foam.
Avig - re the x2 plugs - In my opinion they are tops - easy install, easy repair - strong when installed right. www.foamez.com/pdfs/FCSManual.pdf - here’s the instruction manual - I use a 6" piece of straight metal coathanger to clear the circle of foam around the deck. Good luck.
I have a good friend that made a surfboard with tons of concave…same shapers you talk about…same links…I glassed the board. Here’s the link to the Swaylock’s thread…
When I glassed the board I used glass on fins…why? because we can cut off the fins if things are not right and re-set the fins. You cannot do that with a fin system…
…right now we are talking about starting over…we learned alot…and the glass on fins can get used on the next project…glass-on fins are hard at first but for every fin system I need to learn to install I always look back and see how easy glass-on are…
So…AviG…Right now I would say do glass ons…Ha, ha…I just glassed a little shortboard with crazy concaves…did FCS plugs…because plugs are easy with complex curves…not so strong.
Yes Stingray…I have read that thread. Seen webbers website and blog. Ol’ Webbers a bit off the rails though I think. He shows no real picutures of his boards on his blog or website and he stands in a small bedroom holding his hands up and telling you with his fingers what he is doing with a board. If I weren’t a shaper I would think…“I can’t buy that board”. That said…Bit of a mad genius.
Can’t go glassons. I want to travel with the board. Also…I am a big fan of fins and fin templates and adjustability.
I’m most concerned with the concaves. I’m not too deep but 3/16 or 1/4" can offset the plug. I’ve almost alwaysed used 5deg. But that’s going to have to change.
The guys in the movie Endless Summer traveled the world with a glass on fin…
…I’m a fan of ProBox and I’m learning other systems like Fusion…F the Pro status Qoe…you aready made up your mind…Go for it! grind a little here , sand there…add some cloth because things did not come out perfect…work it out…good stuff
I’ve actually been reading alot about Probox. They seem like they might be a good system. known about them for years. But as much as I have been reading up on Larrys amazing fins…he has so few of them available to buy. The website is out of date and eveyone selling his fins have plastic models. It’s a big ask to have me switch systems and start building my own fin templates. :) But I think the Fin Man out of SD could make me some.
First off it is Maurice Cole! ‘ been working on concaves a while
The last few years they have come on deeper both double and the Cole idea (caught my eye how fast those tow in boards where going) the single concave. Started using the FCS “fusion” fin system when it came out (and no disrespect Ray) just faster. Use the different cant degrees to compensate for the concaves along with other magic you seem to know. Doing all quads right now! The Vee deal a bitch, maybe glass on?
My expeience with futures to easy to lose your fins. And wish i had known about the Probox before, good stuff!
The nine degree fusions and FCSII are made to be used on deep concaves. All contemporary hpsb have pretty healthy concaves now. The nines will yield ~5d with a minimum of fuss.
Thanks Mike…makes sense. I will pick up some 9 deg. for this board.
I’ve actually been taking a strong look at probox fin systems. I used to love lokbox for their forward and aft movement of the fins…makes a huge difference. Everyone surfs differently and subtle changes to the fin configuration would make a big difference in preformance. Enough to turn a dog of a board into something really great. But since I started shaping a few years ago fusion was the way I went. Had a cousin that was a rep. But now with the changes going on at FCS…I miss the control I had over the fins. FCS II doesn’t look like its going to allow for any movement. just fin swaping at $100 or more per set. And even swaping the template doesn’t do as much as shifting the position in my opinion. 4wfs has a good concept but I think probox might be a solid option. might take a bit longer to load the box but I don’t care. I’ll spend the extra few min to get the adjustability.
Coil surf…out of NJ. Right? One of my buddies has one of your boards. Amazing construction techniques. Really.
We look at FCSII as an improvement and I think most will agree once everyone has gotten used to it. It takes away the hassle of grub screws, feels more solid, front of fin is flush, etc.
Thanks for the props on our boards, they’re all proudly made in Brevard county, Florida. We’re Satellite Beach, Indian Harbour, Indialantic local boyz.
