FCS, nothing changes.

General Discussion
21

hey karl

adhesive tech sells resin by the barrel and glasssin the hundreds of meters

try 100 sheets of corecell

there not interested in selling 4 liter kits

i asked collin about making a resin for us and basically its such a small anoying industry with small orders

its just not worth there time

i can see why some wholesalers are not interested in selling one set of a fins a month

ill hook you up with what your after no worries

and if you want theres also hardcore surf, ultimate surf and bodyline do fin systems as well

22

It’s probably because manufacturing and distributors are not really set up as a cash industry. As far as installations go I can actually understand this. If a builder is doing crappy installations using your product, people are going to have problems with the quality of your product. This reflects poorly on your product even though the problem is not really with your product. My brother had to go through the same thing as an installer of Hunter Douglas products (shutters, plantation blinds, etc).

Quote:

Why do you need a credit check if you pay cash!!!

They must check instalations. crap. The rep here said sell to me no worries.

I sell cattle and if you don’t chew your steak 25 times a bite I’ll take it back.

What I was getting at with this post is don’t offer the world and then change the rules.

23
Quote:

Hey Paul

I really appreciate your help on that. That’s what makes the compsand cooperative work - need to make more of a contributin myself. I like FCS system too and have had no problems ever.

I can understand why manufacturers wounld not want to wholesale to halfassed backyarders like me. And wouldn’t mind supporting my local shop, everyone’s gotta live, but $10 a plug or $80 to make a quad is just outrageous.

The retail side of the industry has gotten way expensive. The reason and this is just business as it’s always been in any industry is the manufactures are making most of the money up front. The retailer ends up being the distributor. They order at least $1000 worth of product. The price is what the market will allow given competition.

I agree that folks shouldn’t change the game if they make a promise, but it’s possible thats just regional or even local. It could just be individual personalities they they need to check up on.

When someone is in full production mode, it’s hard to sell one or two plugs when they can ship 500 sets to a shop. Most backyarders don’t have a business license. FCS and others are likely set up to deal with businesses…not individuals shaping as a hobby. Just a thought…I could be dead wrong.

24

Howzit solosurfer, You hit the nail on the head. FCS is like any other company when it comes to wholesaling products, you have to have a business and a license to get wholesale pricing. Other than that they welcome new manufacturers to buy their products. They do require that your first order is over $300 which gets you free shipping also which is a real plus in this day and age. The other thing is they have a discount process that is determined by how many production sets you buy in a year the more you buy the better the discount. As for plugs they charge $2.25 a plug but if you buy the right amount ( which is I think is four 3 fin setups ) they are prepackaged the I think the cost is only $2.00 a plug. It’s when they have to break open the prepackaged sets for smaller orders that they only charge an extra 25 cents per plug.Kind of like the difference between buying just a few yards of fiberglass instead of a whole roll I talk with my rep and the main office and they have been more than accomidating and helpful. Recently I talked with Bryant about quad set ups and he was very helpful and can’t say enough good things about him and my rep Kaipo Guerrero. As for them wanting to check your installation process, I don’t blame them for wanting to make sure it’s done right, especially after all the bad things said about their plugs coming out or just failing. I have taught a few people how to do installs correctly and have also given FCS feedback when I found problems, they are more than open to hear what you have to say. I think it’s great that a rep will actually come and make sure your install are done right because you may be doing it wrong which and FCS will end up getting the flack not the person who did the install. I say just get a business license and do things in a business way and you will have no problems. I have been doing business with FCS for over 10 years and they ahve been very generous about comping new products and some freebies to boot. In the end all I can say is I love doing businees with them and will continue to.Aloha,Kokua

25

Hello All-

Here’s an update from my perspective. I contacted John / Pandanus to try to get some more details on the situation and also try to get the guy who had the problem’s contact info. I did not receive a reply from John, which surprised me, especially considering I was just trying to help with the situation. John, I’ll just assume you are standing by your initial words of this thread by not replying to me and I can respect that. I also contacted our Australia sales manager and our rep that dealt with the situation first hand. Just last night I recieved this from our rep: “The guy Pandanus is talking about on Swaylocks this week I have spoken to. I have sent all the correct info to open his account, no matter how small. He has yet to fill out all the info and get it back to us.”

So, I’m not sure what else we can do. From all I can tell, we have done due diligence with this matter.

I’d also like to address the situation that Karl from NZ had. In NZ we do not have a stand alone Surf Hardware Intl. (parent company for FCS) operation, but instead an independent distributor that sells our product. It is very difficult to tell our distributors around the world how to run their business, especially considering they are independent contractors / agents. We really don’t want to do so anyway. We can give them guidance, advise and support, but at the end of the day it is their business and they make their own business policies, procedures, decisions and pricing. We do have contracts with our distributors, but to my knowledge there are no clauses telling them who they can and can’t sell to and why, and I doubt they would sign off and accept that even if we tried. Please forgive me, as I am not at all familiar with our distributor in NZ because our Australia branch oversees them, but by all accounts and from good feedback by participants on Swaylocks from NZ and others, our distributor in NZ is doing a fine job for us.

We have distributors all over the world, but just so everyone knows, Surf Hardware Intl. has stand alone branch offices in Australia, Japan, France and the US. These branches have a good bit of autonomy when it comes to policies, procedures, pricing, etc. and these same things can vary from branch to branch. I can tell you that when a customer or potential customer contacts us directly, we do everything we can to accomodate that customer regardless of size or stature and regardless of whether they are a consumer, retailer or surfboard manufacturer. As you can imagine, there are many different scenarios and situations that arise, and many different ways to accomodate them, far too many to list here. All I can say is we try our best. Why wouldn’t we?

Finally, I’d like to say thanks for all of your insightful comments and a special thanks to those of you that complimented me / us :slight_smile:

Best regards,

Ron

26

That just kicks so much ass–that’s just how it is DONE where I come from.

(So it was a guy wouldn’t answer your PM to try to make it good…?)

27
Quote:

Hello All-

Here’s an update from my perspective. I contacted John / Pandanus to try to get some more details on the situation and also try to get the guy who had the problem’s contact info. I did not receive a reply from John, which surprised me, especially considering I was just trying to help with the situation. John, I’ll just assume you are standing by your initial words of this thread by not replying to me and I can respect that. I also contacted our Australia sales manager and our rep that dealt with the situation first hand. Just last night I recieved this from our rep: “The guy Pandanus is talking about on Swaylocks this week I have spoken to. I have sent all the correct info to open his account, no matter how small. He has yet to fill out all the info and get it back to us.”

So, I’m not sure what else we can do. From all I can tell, we have done due diligence with this matter.

I’d also like to address the situation that Karl from NZ had. In NZ we do not have a stand alone Surf Hardware Intl. (parent company for FCS) operation, but instead an independent distributor that sells our product. It is very difficult to tell our distributors around the world how to run their business, especially considering they are independent contractors / agents. We really don’t want to do so anyway. We can give them guidance, advise and support, but at the end of the day it is their business and they make their own business policies, procedures, decisions and pricing. We do have contracts with our distributors, but to my knowledge there are no clauses telling them who they can and can’t sell to and why, and I doubt they would sign off and accept that even if we tried. Please forgive me, as I am not at all familiar with our distributor in NZ because our Australia branch oversees them, but by all accounts and from good feedback by participants on Swaylocks from NZ and others, our distributor in NZ is doing a fine job for us.

We have distributors all over the world, but just so everyone knows, Surf Hardware Intl. has stand alone branch offices in Australia, Japan, France and the US. These branches have a good bit of autonomy when it comes to policies, procedures, pricing, etc. and these same things can vary from branch to branch. I can tell you that when a customer or potential customer contacts us directly, we do everything we can to accomodate that customer regardless of size or stature and regardless of whether they are a consumer, retailer or surfboard manufacturer. As you can imagine, there are many different scenarios and situations that arise, and many different ways to accomodate them, far too many to list here. All I can say is we try our best. Why wouldn’t we?

Finally, I’d like to say thanks for all of your insightful comments and a special thanks to those of you that complimented me / us :slight_smile:

Best regards,

Ron

This folks is what you call customer service. I don’t see what else could possibly be done. Good job Ronnie. Keep up the good work.

What a world…anyone from anywhere can get questions answered directly from some of the key personel in the industry on a forum. Exellent stuff.

28

Something that you may want to consider is the price of your installation kits. Probox & Speeedfins install kits are much cheaper. But there also seems to be a lot more parts to an FCS install kit so maybe I am comparing apples to oranges.

29

i think fcs needs to upgrade there install to router only

or have a router only option

it would be hell cheaper

one template and a router bit

those holessaws are pretty clunky

30 
Howzit silly, You have a point there but using a drill is a lot safer than a router. The other thing is even using a router you still need to address how to do the H pattern and since the deck is not flat you would need the hand tool for making the H to the underside of the deck. If you get you installation kit from FCS it is only $100 and it's money spent well. I have watched people do Futures, Lokboxand Probox and other router installs and at least 25% of them they messed up due to improper router usage. Just my 2 cents.Aloha,Kokua
31

cmon guys… you learnt how to make surfboards… make a jig/guide for a router… why do you have to wait for a manufacturer to make you and install kit… does a blank manufacturer supply you with a shaping kit? or a eps supplier a hotwire kit… no you made it from the stuff you had or aquired… make your own install kit… nothin personal here silly. but theres lots of guys who wanna be shapers or build thier own boards… but when it comes to making simple tools to make boards they wanna buy ready made stuff instead of creating thier own simple tools?

32

oops accidentaly logged in as sillycybin

hey kokua im not sure how the kiwi dollar is 80 cents yet the install kit cost $260 plus gst here

figure that one out

i got a mate that got suckerd into buying one for 400$nz

hey dave i hear you mate

ive been making tools since i was about 15

no problems im a master jeweller from a family of 5 jewellers

my mums water broke in a jewellery workshop

but if theres a plastic one for 10 bucks

then i could be doing something else

like surfing or somethin :wink:

btw if anyone want hell deals on handfabricated engagememt rings and diamonds

ill hook you up

youll be saving lots of money and get a ring that will get handed down to your grandkids

instead of falling to pieces like most of the crap you get these days

i can make any stlye and quality

postage no problems



33

i got me aibrush in the mail today

mwha ha ha ha ha ha

have you guys seen the kustom shop tutorials on youturd

wicked stuff

34

Speaking of decorative things the missus bought me a new board for my birthday.

Pity it was an Aussie opal pendant shaped into a fish.

Just kidding I have enough boards.

Needed a little work on the buttcrack with a dremel by me to get the outline looking better though.

35

Righto, I hadn’t got back to RON as I hadn’t been able to contact my friend so I couldn’t vouch for the complete story. I was pissed because it seemed that after the rep rang me and told me that we are looking after the little guy he was putting hurdles infront of the others. If they don’t want the bussiness say so. And I will eat a bit of pie here. I went off half cocked , but Ive been there. I done burn twice

It is not easy when the number 1 surfboard repair guy inthe area is the only 1 for 500km.It is not as though he is pumping out boards and needs an abn. No he is like a lot on sways that fixes the odd board sells the odd board so he can aford a beer or take the wife out for dinner. Why should he need to do a credit check for a small transaction it is not as though he is booking up a few hundred dolars worth. Other companies , eg speedfins , ausfinco and ofishl don’t have a problem with helping the little people.

In AUSTRALIA we don’t all live next door to a board manufacturer. It is a big place , I only get mail three times a week. for a parcel to come from sydney to my friends place it takes 4 days.

Also as I have said earlier if more reps had the ethic of RON LONG the world would be a better place. What the rest need to realise is we are still a cottage industry. One day if the arse falls out of the china thia market there willstill be the little guy in a shed shaping a way becuase he like it, they will still fix them because they want to. Sales reps come and go.

36

Howzit Paul, Sounds to me like some body is making a good profit on the kits. But like fcseast said they can’t really control the prices that some of their sellers charge. I think that Foamez charges around $160 for the kit which is a 60% mark up. I bought a new kit just back in November and it was only $5 more than my first kit that cost $95. When you figure in the rate exchange that means a kit in NZ should only run about $120 there. Have you tried to get one direct from Austrailia, maybe they can get you a better price.Aloha,Kokua

37

I have nothing but great things to say about FCS rep Mike Sullivan here in FL. I gave him my business information, and can order plugs one day and have them on my door step the next day, doesnt matter if I order just one single set or a bunch. He always answers his phone when I call and has been great to do business with.

38

Ditto on Mike Sullivan. Probably the nicest rep to deal with. I never have meet him in person but only through phone conversasions. About a week ago I was sick and in the hospital. Mike found out and called Austin a few days later to ask how I was doing. How many reps can you say that would do that? Mike is always helpful, pleasant, and I usually get my order within two days.

Troy

39

John / Pandanus- Thanks very much for the personal compliment. On this subject though, I don’t really see asking a potential new customer to fill out some paper work so we can have all of his details as jumping through hurdles. That is normal business practice. Just to clarify, we don’t run a credit check on someone unless they request terms with us. One of the forms that we ask be filled out we call a credit application, but it is more or less just an info sheet. If a customer requests C.O.D. or Prepay, we don’t run a credit check. Once again, this is normal business practice as far as I can see. To imply that we just don’t want to deal with a customer because they are small and we make it difficult for them purposely because we don’t want the business is absolutely wrong and false. I know you said you don’t want to hear from us anymore, but your rep will still be in contact with you and just so you know, there are no hard feelings on our end because of this situation.

To address the tool costs. Here in the US, we basically do not make any $ on tools, we just sell them for what we pay for them. I can’t speak for the rest of our branches, but I’m sure it is nearly the same situation. Tools are expensive and as you all know there are multiple tools required for a traditional FCS install, so there is a bit of an initial investment to get set up properly to install FCS. We obviously suggest our customers use our tools we supply that are specific to our install, but most of the tools can be bought elsewhere or also made by anyone who would rather do so. I can’t make any promises, but I’m going to see if I can get all of our branch managers to lean on our distributors around the world to not make a profit on our install tools and just charge what we charge them for the tools. Like I said, I can’t make any promises because they ultimately make the call on price, but I’ll see what I can do.

To Surfboard Medics and Todd Saunders, Mike Sullivan will greatly appreciate the compliments and I’ll be sure to pass them along to him. He checks out Sways occasionally as well. Since hiring Mike 3 years ago, he has done nothing but thoroughly impress me daily with his strong work ethic and dedication to customer service excellence. He’s an unreal surfer to boot! The total package rep as far as I’m concerned. We were very lucky to find him and lucky to have him as our rep here on the east coast of the US.

Thanks again to all!

Ron

40

Ron,

Well done, now if you really can influence the global FCS attitude, that would be awesome and your ass won’t get chewed by the likes of me as long as the truth prevails.

If those Bankers haven’t promoted you yet to run the global business, they should. Good luck!

Rocky