Just set some plugs in a new board and I am still having problems with air bubbles around the plugs! Sanded the bottom of the plug with 40 grit, wiped with acetone. No wax in the mix (thanx Kokua) Added pigment, milled glass…set for 20 minute kick and tediously started the squeeze bottle pour. Most bubbles come up and I dab them …it’s the tiny ones that are driving me nuts. always there will be some @ deck level when you sand. Any one else have this problem?? MLC
krokus, after u pour the resin in, move the jigs and plugs around a little, itll knock out the air. if its that bad, fcs sells special resin for plugs. ive never used it, i think its a waste. dj
I started mixing my FCS resin the night before, for two reasons: To allow some styrene to evaporate and leave a thicker mixture, making for an easier time setting cant in my fins. Herb, et al. To allow a lot of those bubbles (from mixing) to work their way out of the resin. This seems to be a lot worse since I started using milled fibre. Just make sure to slowly mix in the catalyst when your ready to lay your plugs. I have also noticed that the milled fibre seems to absorb the resin with time (true??) Which leaves you with a thicker, drier mixture than planned, and also creates the “dissapearing resin” trick (which can drop below the board surface if you don’t leave an extra pool on top). The day of soaking might help prevent this. That being said, a thicker mixture seems to take longer to work its way into small nooks and cranies, taking longer to release the air inside, which takes longer to rise to the top of the thicker resin mixture. So it’s a bit of a trade off. I know FCS have gotten a lot of slander, and I have had a few problematic plugs… but I followed this technique on my last 2 boards, as well as including the acetone bath and scrub down, sandpaper roughup, scribing the outside of the holes, laying 3 layers of glass around the plugs, and the H pattern… and they’ve held up fine. piece of cake.
I let the resin, fiber, pigment mixture set about 15 minutes after mixing. The pigment has a smoothing effect it seeems. I think the mix needs to be thinner. I am going to cut back on the fiber a little next time. I think I will try a double pour also. Bottom 2/3rds without wax, this should allow easier release around H patern. Then I’ll pour top third with wax to help with the sanding…extra light on the fiber. Sounds like a bad diet! …MLC
see this is weird, bc i have never let it sit , not even for a couple minutes, i put the ingredients in, and start to bake the cake. sounded much cooler in my head?? but yeah, never once had that problem. i have no idea why i ahvet experienced this ever. ive put in atleast 200 plugs, and not once has it happened. knock on wood dj
I’ve tried lots of different methods, but your still gonna’ wind up with that rogue bubble(s). On beaded EPS it is much worse, the epoxy resin starts to get stiff for such a longer time that once bubbles start the holes don’t close. I only filled the cavity part way, let it bubble away, no, it still got air, filled it over the top, still got air. Sand 'em down, add a filler coat to the remaining bub’s
Here’s a couple of other tips. The amount of milled fibers in the mix effects the ease of squirting the resin in; or shall I say the ease of the resin soaking down thru the little ring perimeter. Over time I’ve decreased the amount of fibers in the mix so the resin isn’t too thick and pasty.Yea, it technically might not be as strong, but there’s plenty in there. I,ve heard of some factories not even using the powder anymore, and going as far as heating up the resin to make it thinner so it drains down in the holes faster! No wonder FCS gets a bad rap so often. Also, take a piece of 80 grit rolled up tight and give it a whirl along the fiberglass splinter hairs on the inside of the holes after drilling. Those damn little things act like sewer grates,trapping your milled fibers along the top of the holes. Then the escaping air has a hard time coming out efficiently, and air pockets form right at the top, where they get exposed during grinding. I’ve used all the fin systems and still think FCS is the best, for these reasons:1.The drill. Any router-based system will always need a jig to move around 3 times for a thruster set-up.Routers are loud, they throw debris everywhere, and jig-plates can move and ruin boards. Any kid can be trained to use the neat little marking gauge,drill the 3 holes nice and quietly(and safely),and do it in the proximity of other workers.2.The plugs are petite and easy to repair, they don’t break your whole rail off from a side impact.3.FCS fits in thin little grommett boards,as well as deep channel bottoms, heavy concave bottoms, and quad or C-5 designs. Some of the others either won’t work or are a royal pain in the ass to make work.4.Setting fin angle is a breeze and the installer is in direct control thoughout the resin-applying.(No guess work,the fins on the finished board will be just how you left’em in the glassing room.) I think there is room for improvement though,and have a couple ideas that would be killer, but that’s a secret.There’s a system in my head that combines the best aspects of all the ones out there,but who’s got time and $$$ to pursue that pipedream?
I use 5200 marine adhesive for epoxy/styro,tough and samdable,the down side is it takes two days to set ! Thanks to Tom@Daum and Plankton for the insight.Herb
I’d stay away from the wax. I ruined a set… granted I used wax in the whole thing, but there’s no real point for it. I’ve never had any problems sanding out plugs with lam resin.
Herb, Check out this link. http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/en001/auto_marine_aero/marine/node_GSHQ68LPDHbe/root_GST1T4S9TCgv/vroot_GS4JK4Y166ge/gvel_QH8HT14PGTgl/theme_us_marine_3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/output_html Could cut some time out of your cure.
This is just like patching a ding on the bottom of a board - you can be “careful” but still a bubble will come up and spoil what you thought was a nicely finished fill job. If you’ve thickened your resin with milled fiber, how do you expect the bubbles to rise through the mix? The buoyancy of a small bubble is just that - small. Obviously it will take a LONG time to rise through any liquid, the thicker the liquid the slower the bubble will rise. Thinner resin would be one solution, use a little smidgen of styrene. Slower resin is another, so the bubbles have time to rise. Adequately wetting the routed hole in the board is another. When you dump in the mix, you’re trapping air between the foam and the mix. Think about adequately wetting the foam first before you dump in resin. Adequate wetting will be enhanced with a little styrene, if you choose that route. For what it’s worth (the price you paid, right?) on the last boxes I put in, I used lam resin thickened with a little bit of Qcell. The mix is light, matches the foam color, and slightly thicker than straight resin so it tends to stay where you put it.
Howzit Rook, mixing the filler and letting it sit for a while isa good solution for this problem.It’s the milled fibers that cause the bubbles. I make up a pint of mix at a time, this not only lets the bubbles dissapate but I don’t have to make a mixture for each set of plugs. By the way My FCS rep says we will be seeing an improved system very soon with stronger plugs and some new fin templates.Aloha, Kokua
…Thanks Tom you’re always heaps of help to me,Thanks.Say howzit to Dennis for me as well.Herb
Here’s the Australian way with putting Da FCS in Guys!!! Pour the resin into the holes WITHOUT THE PLUGS IN- about 3/4 the way up,let it settle, then put the thing with the two plugs on into the holes and set up your alignment!!! Somebody please tell me you have’nt all been pissing the resin into the little fucking gaps between the plugs and the foam hole!!! JEEEZ http://www.speedneedle.com.au
FCS IS GARBAGE.