I recently shaped a new board, and without thinking about it I took too much foam off the tail. I measured the tail at 1 inch thick after glassing but before hot coat. The problem is this board was made to be a single fin and I originally wanted to put a fins unlimited box in, which is also an inch tall/thick. So now I’m wondering how much I can grind down the box and if I can make it work or if I need to glass on a fin. I just wanted to see if anyone has any advice. Thanks in advance.
Stop now and think about it.
First of all, never grind the inside part of the box, the part that is inserted first.
Now, as far as grinding the face…if you do, you fins won’t fit all the way in!!
Instead of worrying about that, just rout out your box hole as normal, then install the stock, unshaven, but sanded box in with two layers of cloth. Wait till it sets.
Flip board over, glass 4 patches over the box, let set.
Flip board back on bottom side up, fill box cavity with resin…not the inside, you know that.
So what if the box sticks out thru the deck? If you step that far back, you are kicking it at someone anyways.
I have no experience with the boxes you mention, but I’ve put in many boxes. On thin tails I would rout the hole down to, but not through, the deck glass. Prepare the hole, set the box in as usual, and sand off the excess. As long as you don’t grind too much depth off the box, there should be no problems. Well, I never had any.
If it was me, I’d just use a glass on fin.
Next time, think three times, measure twice, cut once. Or something like that!
Actually…
Sanding the face of a FU or Chinook box is a bad idea. When you trim down the sides, then install a fin, the fin is not only less supported, sticks the base out into the waterflow, but also tends to hum and spin out, because the base is sticking out!!!
Now no biggie on side fins, but on a single fin, with the fin the ONLY one, it’sa big deal!
Glass ons give your board no tunability, so stay with your fin box, have in protrude into the deck, and make sure you glass over it, both on the deck AND on the bottom (Cap the darn box).
I would be embarassed to ride a board with the fin box sticking up through the deck, glassed over or not.
But, hey, whatever floats your boat…
Actually, history has shown quite a few boards thin enough to have the finbox show thru, protruding up to 1/2" above the deck. Just means the board is thin, and the rider should be able to have good feel.
Personally, I hate thin boards.
But with all this talk about flex tails, front foot surfers, speed surfers, that stuff, you are gonna run into this problem more and more.
I’m not considering “smooth, sellable product” here, just function.
ive been in this situation a few times before on High performance longboards, I recommend routing the box as normal, then grinding some of the bottom of the box off they are about 1/4 inch thick in the base so if you take an 1/8 off. your still doing ok
A couple of you guys are exactly right (Surflab, Wildie). If you have calipered thickness of the board at the distance from the talblock that you want to place your box and have an accurate one inch you are going to be fine. I have shaped alot of thin tails and found that I can still use a box if I have at least one inch at the rear placement of the box. But here are a few percautions that will make the installed box look good and not break through the deck. 1. When you router the cavity for the box do not rout through the foam, stringer etc. Go as deep as you can without going through. This will leave you with a thin layer of foam and stringer that will cosmetically hide the box and will add a little to strength. You really need a plunge router and some patience to do this. 2. You do have some leeway with the lip around the box opening. Some of these boxes(like the most recent bahne) actually have a raised lip to aid in keeping resin out, tape-off etc. Take some measurements and see how much you can grind off the box without over-exposing your fin base. Install the the box in your normal manner. You can cap the box top and bottom with an extra layer or two of glass. I usually place my single fins up from the tailblock 5 to 6.5 inches depending on the shape, shape of fin, length of box. So you do have some variables there that you can play with to make the board surf well and look good too. But next time if you want a thin tail figure out where you want your box and thin the tail out from that point. Mcding
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McDing, your thinking is askewered towards your own way of percieving things.
There is no “right” or “wrong” in this question, only your personal desires to built a cosmetically “cool” board, or one that is capable of handling 10" + fins and a powerful rider.
If you haven’t seen all the boards on the market that have finboxes sticking thru the deck, then you are not qualified to make any kind of answer.
If you haven’t ever considered single fins longer than 10", and I mean all the way up to 13", then once again, you are not qualified to give any kind of “definitive” answer.
Please, not all single fin surfers ride little, slow, mushy waves. You have to consider the needs of surfers who really stress their fins and boxes, tails of boards and rails.
For typical SoCal, Texas, and East Coast waves, you might be correct.
Soren,
You might consider moving the finbox more forward on the board, not just to get to thicker foam, but to loosen up the tail. I’ve seen boards with the box 6 1/2" to 7inches from the tail and have it on good authority that it helps with performance. Personally, I usually place them at 6"to 6 1/2" and have been pleased with the results.
I’ve also sanded just a little bit off the bottom of the box, but I usually use a double stringer, one on each side of the box, to help add strength. Doug
LeeDD Your ego is a big as your fin. My post was an attempt to give Soren a few tips on how to deal with a specfic problem. It’s pretty common for a beginner to thin a tail to much. It didn’t sound like to me that he did it intentionly. You are right about one thing though: I almost never see boards that have been routed through the deck. That is probably because the boards I usually see in shops and factories throughout Maui, Santa Cruz and Santa Barbara are not usually shaped and glassed by hacks like you. Here on Maui, I personally use everything from a 7.5 with sidebites to a widebase longrake 12 incher and everything in between. I have my personal preferance, but that is irrelevant. If I cared about what people like you thought about old guys like me I would have gone off on a discertation on how to properly sink the box. But in my wisdom I knew that my stanard glass shop production method would have started a hail storm of egotistical comment. If you use a 13 incher then you are definitaly the big dog and out piss me by at least an inch. But you turn like a wimp. Mcding
Hi McDing
Guess you took it any way you want.
Without getting into a pissing match…I’ve been shaping surfboards since 1968.
I’ve seen plenty of expert shapers who are proud their boards (for a specific customer and application), are thinner than the finbox, and the finbox sticks thru to the deck of the board.
Just because you have never seen something, it doesn’t mean that something doesn’t exist.
Remember, tsunami’s are rumored to exist, but you haven’t seen one!
As for my ability to turn…you’d eat your crow if you ever came to SanFrancisco and asked ANY good surfer about my turning ability.
I turn just fine, enough to make waves at Sunset, Wiamea, Pt.Arena, FourMile, Chasms, Cojo, SPID (for contrast), SanBlas, …basically ANY wave that can be surfed without needing a 10’ gun board.
If you want to piss, just go on Surfmag, you’ll fit right in.
Howzit McDing, Now you boys have to learn to play nice here. Now as for the fin box, they actually are closer to 7/8" deep from the bottom of the box to the underside of the tabs. What everybody needs to think about is if the front and the rear of the box are deep then what about the center where the slot is. If it’s below the bottom then you’ve got a bigger problem, and this is a reality with the rocker that some shapers put in the tails. How long have you been on Maui, one of my shapers (Mark Angell ) lived there for over 10 years before moving back to Kauai last year, do you know Mark. Aloha, Kokua
LeeDD; The pissing contest continues. Now your whinin’ about how long you’ve been doin’ it, all the places you’ve been, all those big waves you’ve ridden.you are definatly the man! I think I’ve actually seen you before blowin’ hot air in the paring lot at OB. I did not say I have never seen a fin box routed through the deck. I new a grumpy old guy who built boards in Pismo who used to rout through the deck pretty regularly. Of course how far the box stuck through the deck depended upon how much pakalolo he smoked before he started the procedure. If you showed up at rincon, pleasure point or mala with a board that had a fin box sticking through, you’d have to come up with that design function,"I turn harder."BS excuse pretty quick to keep from getting your ass laughed off the beach. Ha Ha McDing
What does it matter? if you are looking for cosmetics, follow what McDing said for putting the box in. But if you don’t care, rout through the deck and proceed as normal. I’ve seen it done every way imaginable… A common method is to rout through the deck, then come back and place a small logo over the box with a piece of glass over that. It all works, it just depends on how much work you want to put into it. I follow a simple rule, If its HP and gunna get thrashed in a couple months, don’t worry about it, rout through the deck. If it’s a nice classic longboard etc (should be a glass on) make sure that it doesn’t go through the deck. Cosmetics count in those cases. As for McDings comment about getting laughed out of the parking lot for your box showing through the deck at Malibu and Pleasure Point: I know for a fact that many boards are sent down to many people around malibu, with boxes showing, and I personally surf Pleasure Point daily, all my performance boards are routed through the deck. And nobody is laughing. -Carl
Kokua, I have followed posts made by you and Ambrose with interest, as I lived on Kaui for a year in the aftermath cleanup of Iniki. I once rearended a guy in front of Ambrose’s store. I couldn’t take my eyes of off all those boards. I moved to Maui in 02. I had a shop out at the baseyard until recently. It was the old “In Deep” shop. Someone told me that Anderson had been there before him and Angulo before that. It was a dirt bag shop(way too much dust). There was a granite counter top shop in front. I did epoxy repair for shops and surf schools, sold my own boards at the beach. Mark left right after I got there. I have never met him but did see him at moonshine a couple of times. He shapes a great board. I am partial to stepdecks, so he is a man after my own heart. Aloha brah. McDing
Carl, no dis ment to your personal preferance for thin tails. I agree a glasson is the remedy. Where I live a box stickin’ through the deck wouldn’t last more than a couple of go outs before fin, box and all got punched through the deck. Too damned shallow. I know your reputation as a shaper, so you’ve got my respect. Having said that,I stand by my remarks. Only someone like Wayne Lyngh or Gregg Liddle could do something like that and not get laughed at by people I know both in Cal and maui. Certainly in cal. buyers have gotten so critical of the end product that anything that may even have the appearance of a flaw is highly critisized( try shipping some thing to Japan that isn’t perfect). Anyway, I hope Soren got that box in there . McDing
Hey - I hope you get something good going - that You like, and works for you. I laughes so hard at these guys that I had to wipe my lunch of the monitor. Her is another idea, that has hydrodynamic merit - look another thread about fin flow. You could route to the top skin - take a little of the side of the box that goes to the deck, how much strength does that add? Then take some off the bottom - till smooth. Now, I like most of what LeeDD writes, but I have done this many times w/no major problems - but, and here is the big but, mask off the bottom, and build up a “fairing” around the base of your fin - adds to the flow and the strength.
Good luck - and keep asking the sweet provacative questions. Taylor E. Olson
Hi McDing
You must have heard of David Ezzy, the sailmaker. A respected Maui resident.
He got top billing in a mag for shaping a really thin railed, flat decked board with the finbox protruding thru the deck, glassed over with at least 4 layers of cloth, the box sticking up about 1/4" inch.
Then there’s all those Aussie crazy shapers, including some knee boards, with tails around 1" thick for flex, but still using finboxes.
Maybe in your neck of the woods, boxes protruding is a sign of kookdom, but you have to remember the above two obvious cases.
In the recent 30 years of single fin boards, I’ve seen at least 5 articles in Surfing and windsurfing Mags which feature guys who deliberately make thin tailed boards with finbox protruding thru into the deck, and capped with lots of glass, both top and bottom.
I assume you are aware of the idea of posting the finbox thru to the DECK of the board, tying it with about 4 layers of glass, to keep the box intact under high side loads.