#1 I keep reading in the forum how changing fins is “almost like having a quiver”, and will allow a board to be ridden in a huge variety of surf. That just doesn’t fit for me. I could see it if I was dedicated to long boarding only. Yes, fins will change the turning/holding characteristics. I change boards with changing conditions purely for floatation/paddling power and can not see how changing fins would make any difference for that. I want as short of a board as I can still effectively paddle into waves with. 6’1" shorty, 7’8 gun, 9’2" gun, 7’8" fun shape, and 10’0" long board, all get used, can’t see a fin quiver making any unnecessary.
#2 I keep reading that futures vectors don’t hold in, etc. I’ve been using the 467 3/2’s (the ones with the crazy vector wobble) for about a year now, they hold in really, really well for me. I like them a lot. Haven’t tried the hatchet trailer yet.
#3 Is anybody using the futures carbon RTM flex fins (soft, med, stiff)? Just hype or worth trying?
The right board for the condition is the call. I agree completely.
Consider that if you have a midsized board with rail fin boxes and a F/U center fin box you can do many things to tune a given board for different conditions.
For thruster clusters you can change fins for different conditions too. As one begins to understand how different templates and foil configurations affect board performance many new options of board performance open up. As one example fins with reduced tip area release from rail to rail more easily. This can be a good or bad thing depending on the board and the conditions. Wide based fins are stiffer than narrow based fins.
I see changing fins as a way of tuning each board, more than as a way to do away with boards. For example I have an 8’4" that I sometimes ride as a twin fin with curved fins, which makes it much looser than its standard thruster set up… that doesn’t eliminate any other board, but it does mean that if I get to the surf and it’s a little more playful than ferocious, I can loosen up the board to match…
Having a quiver of fins or the ability to move them will not make a 6’ short board paddle like an 8’ gun. But, it will expand the range of that 6’ short board. Small slower waves like larger side fins with flat inside surfaces and a small trailer clustered close together. This setup will loosen up your typical thruster. Larger more powerful waves like smaller 80/20 foiled side fins and an equal size center fin spread further apart. This setup will be smoother with more control.
For guns they work best for various surface conditions. If it’s smooth and glassy you can get away with less fins size. But, if you’re dealing with alot of surface chop on the edge of control a larger more raked template will help smooth things out. I wouldn’t say that anyone of the boards you mentioned would be made obsolete by changing fins. But, there are alot of different sized and types of waves that can be optimized for in that 6’1" range.
#1 I keep reading in the forum how changing fins is "almost like having a quiver", and will allow a board to be ridden in a huge variety of surf. That just doesn't fit for me.
Some people keep quivers of a half dozen or more boards all within 3 inches of the same length.
No fin system is going to equate to a six inch change in board length. But alterations in fins can tune the board in better for different conditions.
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#2 I keep reading that futures vectors don’t hold in, etc. I’ve been using the 467 3/2’s (the ones with the crazy vector wobble) for about a year now, they hold in really, really well for me. I like them a lot. Haven’t tried the hatchet trailer yet.
The board matters a lot. It’d be useful if you posted your board’s
tail width
tail shape
rear rocker
bottom contour
rear rail shape
amount of toe-in and cant
and other pertinent details so the others on this board would be able to see if your board is somehow different from the ones on which the vectors are purportedly causing problems. B/c my impression is that the board - more likely the fin positioning (including toe-in, cant, fore-aft position) makes the vectors work or not. Just like other fins.
Hey Keep…here’s a real world situation…you want to surf early on the way into work…you only want to bring one board with you for whatever reason…there are many. The waves could be phat mushy or they can be sucky bowly depending on the various factors we all “seem” to know so well…having a quiver a fins allows you to tune THAT board for the given condition for THAT session.
I’ve been using FCS for years now and Im now installing a lokbox in the center for fore-aft adjustability as well as fin size adjustment…works wonders on travel boards too. I can make the board more pivoty or more drawn out…depending on the conditions…even make adjustments in the water.
Bad fins can literally ruin the performance of a good board.
There are lots of mediocre fins around… but fins that are carefully fine-tuned to a specific shape and surfer can often bring a mediocre board to life. Try surfing without any fins sometime…
I am all for experimenting with different fins on a board, it just seems that once I get it dialed I wouldn't take a look at the surf and make a decision to change my fins. I ride my 6'1" in anything from 3' wind slop to 2' overhead barrels, I want good size fins for drive in the small stuff and good size fins for hold in the big. I guess I could see swapping out the rear for a little fin or tightening the cluster for some fun tail sliding in the small stuff though. Having one board with different fins replacing a few boards does make more sense when you put it into the perspective of having a quiver of boards in 2" increments.
Halcyon, I'm at work so I'll have to get back to you on the exact measurements but pretty standard stuff. Slight vee in the nose to single to double concave (all subtle) going into a fair amout of vee in the tail, the vee does probably contribute to my holding power.
I really haven’t experimented much with fin flex on a short board. The fins are so short it’s just hard to imagine them flexing far enough, then snapping back, to drive me out of a turn. Again anyone used those futures flex fins?
Blakestah, I was envisioning a fin that would act kind of like your flex system. A lot of the meat of the fin would be composed of fin rope layed in vertically (90 degrees to the surface of the board), then a couple layers of glass either side, a real narrow base with a wider top. The idea being that the fin rope would keep the fin stiff as far as lateral flex but would allow the fin to have a twisting type of flex to it. The base wouldn’t twist like yours does so there would be a little more drag. What do you think?
Blakestah, I was envisioning a fin that would act kind of like your flex system. A lot of the meat of the fin would be composed of fin rope layed in vertically (90 degrees to the surface of the board), then a couple layers of glass either side, a real narrow base with a wider top. The idea being that the fin rope would keep the fin stiff as far as lateral flex but would allow the fin to have a twisting type of flex to it. The base wouldn't twist like yours does so there would be a little more drag. What do you think?
Experimentation is cool and fun. Sounds challenging. The thruster finbox prototypes I am making are 80% larger, per fin, than a pair of FCS plugs, use less resin to install…Can’t wait to get em in a board and see how it works once it is tuned up…
Making fins has a learning curve. I’ve made somewhere between 15 and 20 glass fins, and it now takes about 20 minutes to foil a fin and it comes out well. The ‘pros’ have better setups and do a fin in just a minute or two. But the first few attempts are somewhat frustrating, even more so from the lack of good tutors in the surf world (but I am greatly indebted to periodic tips from Master Halcyon). So don’t think, if it’s your first try, it is going to be great, b/c there’s a good chance it will suck. But show your work here, you will get great tips/feedback, and get better fast.
Using a few layers of carbon near the spine, and making an epoxy/glass fin, generates pretty nice flex characteristics.
Fins flex MUCH more than most people think. In my system I can tell when the fin rotation hits the end limit, and then try to make it hit the end limit in my hand, and it is quite surprising.
I’m sure there is quite a bit of flex going on in my fins, it just seems like short board fins are too small for the flex to whip/push you out of a turn. That rotational flex fin I was thinking about would be big, for a single fin board. There’s a Greenough fin with basically the exact outline I was imagining. I suppose I could use directional glass instead of fin rope. 20 minutes is actually a lot quicker than I was imagining, it seems like a real pain in the rear, I hate fiberglass shards.
Some might say you can foil a fin in a minute. To get a really true foil I think it takes a little more attention to detail than can be afforded in that short of a time. For glass-on fins it takes less time than for fins that are going into a fin box but regardless it still requires some very careful light handed work taking progressively less material all the time to produce a first class foil. The same is true of shaping a surfboard.
I see many fins out there that look ok but have lots of flat spots in them. I think the flat spots in fins are kind of dead spot. They may make a good paddle but the sure don’t seem very hydrodynamically efficient. However small, every surface on the fins I make has some arc in it. Maybe I’m crazy but I sure don’t see any flat spots on a wahoo, a mako, or any cetaceans.
For a 6’1" thruster generally fin choice has as much to do with surfing style as anything else. If you like quick rail to rail release you want narrower fin tips. If you want drive and power you want bigger fins remembering that rake and tip area add tremendously to drive. When you go through Red X templates on their web-site you’ll see some recomendations about fin size. They are an excellent general reference point. There are also some grand board size recomendations on the Natural Curves Surfboard website.
The introduction of cutaway based fins into the rail fin picture meets with constant resistance. Lots of people won’t even put them in the water but there’s a guy out there that taught Greg Loehr how to shape that did and and few other fairly significant figures in the surfing world that have some very encouraging things to say about them.