Fin placement for a single fin mini - Now a build thread!

stingray · April 20, 2012, 6:58am

I love it!!!! Keep going

volks · April 20, 2012, 5:04pm

Great thread! keep it going cant wait to see the rest!

beerfan · April 21, 2012, 9:51am

Yeah, im keen to see this done. I reckon a 5'10''ish wide arse stubby'd be fun. Keen to hear how it rides. Don't be scared to use a big fin !

paulr · April 23, 2012, 12:26pm

Now I’m ready for the next steps. If you missed the sentence in my opening post about this being a timberflex-style board, you might have been wondering how I was going to pretty up some of the ugliness of my glued-together blank. Fortunately a bamboo veneer will cover most of the board, in fact all but the rails. So far, all the boards I’ve made, with the exception of my first being a HWS, have been compsand/timberflex style boards. As of board #003, I’ve come up with a method that works for me (ie not production friendly!), although I’m sure I can preempt some of the comments that might arise:

Three layers of glass on the rail! It will be too stiff - Yeah, it will be stiff, but that's how I like a board, I find it more responsive.
Bamboo veneer is so 2010, cork is where it is at - I happen to like bamboo, and don't care much for the look of cork.
Vac-bagging without a rocker table is a good way to twist/alter the rocker of a board - Maybe, but I so far I've avoided this with my low-tech method.

Actually, that's all I could think of. Feel free to nitpick, 'cos I'm sure I can come up with a justification (read "excuse") for what I've done.

The first step of preparing for vac-bagging a veneer actually stems from the fact that I don’t use a rocker table. I need to add a bit of stiffness to the blank to make it hold its rocker a bit better. I do this by glassing the rails. Now if you think back to the cardboard outline template I used, I now get my little gauge and mark a line 20mm inside the outline, and trim the template back to this line. I manually position the reduced template top and bottom so it looks right, and trace the outline onto the foam. I then tape along these lines for glassing and cut-lapping the rails. I cut some 6-oz cloth ('cos I have a roll of it lying around) into a strip about 75mm wide, and tape it out over the rails. I tape in in such a way that there are no creases anywhere.

I then laminate the cloth using epoxy and a cheap brush. I can’t remember how much resin I used, but it wasn’t much, perhaps around 120mL.

When the resin gels, I cut the cloth along the tape line top and bottom, just like a regular cutlap. Yes, the pen line used for taping looks ugly, but I’ll deal with that later.

Near the nose, the hotwire melt line is addressed by filling it with spackle. It’s not particularly deep, only 1-2mm, but the important thing is to make sure I have a smooth surface for the veneer, as I don’t want to get a dip in it at all.

Once the resin has cured, I take a piece of sandpaper and lightly sand the foam along the edge of the fibreglass. This is to ensure that the bamboo veneer will sit flush when it is bagged

paulr · April 23, 2012, 1:01pm

Just like my EPS offcuts, I happened to have some bamboo veneer offcuts lying around from my last two boards. Actually, they were rolled up for so long that they just didn’t want to uncurl! I didn’t take any photos of the veneer, but imagine two sheets of 8’x4’ veneer, each with two board outlines cut out of them. It doesn’t leave a lot of bamboo, but I did manage to get two full length pieces of half an outline, which when taped along the centerline, gave me one full outline to cover the bottom on the board. For the top of the board, I couldn’t get any more full length pieces out of the bamboo offcuts, but I did manage to get a piece about 3/4 of the length. So I joined it with another piece (curved join line, not perpendicular to the stringer) to give me enough bamboo to do the deck. This join line is towards the nose, whereas the glue line in the blank is towards the tail, so I don’t think I should have any structural issues.

With my bamboo veneers cut out, I make sure they fit neatly within the glassed rails.

I then lightly spray the veneer with spray-adhesive to tack down the fibreglass. I used 6-oz cloth under the veneer, since I have a roll of it lying around and didn’t want to buy 2-oz or 4-oz just for this. The name of the game is to build this board as much as possible from the bits 'n pieces I already have. Notice how much curl is in the bamboo from having it rolled up for too long. This made spreading resin quite a bit harder.

I then trim the cloth to the bamboo outline.

I always start with the bottom of the board for some reason, and squidgee resin to saturate the cloth. I actually try to use as little resin as I can possible get away with for this step (the first board I did using this technique I wasn’t so diligent and added quite a bit of weight through too much resin under the veneer). I think I used around 125mL of resin for each of the skins (for a 5’2 board). I tape the veneer in place using cheap masking tape.

I then do the same with the veneer for the deck of the board. Both skins are now lightly taped to the EPS. Since I’m not using a rocker table, I like to bag both skins similtaneously. It also allows the bottom skin to follow the contours I’ve shaped into the board.

My vacuum bag is just a homemade job, using polyethelene plastic sheet (200um concreter’s plastic from Bunnings), and a roll of mastic tape. I remember Silly (Paul Cannon?) having enthusiastic debates with people defending the merits of mastic tape, and after having used it for a few boards now, I share his view of it. It’s relatively cheap, easy to use, and works great (plus proper vacuum bagging tube is not so readily available here in Oz). My vac pump was originally an old fridge compressor, but that only lasted one board, so I bought a refridgeration vac pump (for evacuating fridge lines) and rigged it up as per Joe Woodworker’s guide. Haven’t had a problem with this one.

Now even though I don’t use a rocker table, I do actually support the rocker of the board while it is in the bag. I chock the nose of the board perpendicular to the centerline, and likewise with the tail. I then pile bricks at the midpoint of the rocker. This stops the board flattening out under vacuum. Low tech, yes, but it works. And even when I don’t get it right (board #004 had a flat spot in the rocker), it hasn’t really caused me any real issues in the water. In fact, #004 is my current magic board, which over Easter was riding some 1.5-2xOH waves on reefs and beaches not too far from the Rip Curl Pro at Bells Beach. Anyhoo, I digress…

Again continuing my theme of using what I have lying around, the breather material I use is just a long thin strip of nylon shade-cloth, which even though it adheres to the board, it quite easy to pull off. The only downside is that it leaves resin dags that I then have to sand flat later, so I think for my next board, I will use some type of peel ply.

I leave the boad in the bag for 24hrs, and when I pull it out, this is what is looks like. If you look carefully, you can just see the curved join line in the bamboo, about a third down from the nose.

I forgot to mention during the shaping posts that I put a single concave up through the nose, and blending to a double towards the tail. It might not be the most appropriate bottom for a mini-simmons, but like I said earlier, I’m not pretending to be a shaper. I just try to replicate what works on other boards.

Sorry, this photo of the double doesn’t really show too much.

paulr · April 23, 2012, 1:05pm

And that takes me up to where I’m currently at with the board. I’m hoping to glass to bottom in the next few days, but as you may have noticed from a lot of my photos, I tend to do my best work after dark, when the kid’s are in bed. With winter approaching, it’s not really the best conditions for using epoxy, so I have to either wait for weekends, or try to do some in the morning before work, in the hope that the daytime is warm enough for the epoxy to cure. The forecast this week is cool (15C tomorrow), so I’ll have to wait and see…

Anyhoo, keep checking back, I’ll update again once I have made some more progress.

Cheers
Paul

paulr · May 11, 2012, 12:42pm

Finally some more progress to report. We’ve had a bit of cold weather lately, and my lack of a shed (I shape and glass outdoors under a corregated iron roof) means I’ve had to wait to laminate and hotcoat the board. However, this past week we’ve have a number of days with a maximum of around 20C which is just ok for glassing (I’ve had to bring the board in each afternoon when it started to get chilly). Obviously I started with laminating the bottom, using 1 layer of 6oz with Kinetix epoxy.

This is board #006 for me, as it says under the lam.

My logo was designed by my wife, a graphic designer, and is an ambigram (looks the same upside down as right-way up).

Fin placement (as per the discussions at the start of this thread) were marked out prior to laminating the bottom. Notice the ugly high density inserts poking out from the bamboo. These will be hidden soon…

Most of my boards I’ve done cutlaps, but given the cool weather, trying to time an epoxy cutlap is too hard, so I just did (messy) free laps.

I then basted the laps, and at the same time sealed the nose. You’ll notice this finishes where the join in the bamboo veneer is.

Then I ground down the laps on the deck.

Then I layed tape for masking off for spraying the rails and nose.

The masking was completed with butchers paper.

The bottom was masked at the same time.

Then I sprayed the rails and nose white. But what about the deck lamination I hear you ask…won’t it all delaminate if I laminate over painted rails and nose…maybe, maybe not - I haven’t had any trouble with any of my earlier boards.

Besides, I used quality 3M Vinyl paint.

I masked off for the pin line over the paint-bamboo transition.

I filled in the pin line using a black Posca paint pen.

The pin line came up quite well after pulling the tape.

paulr · May 11, 2012, 1:01pm

I then laminated the deck, using a single layer of 6oz. I’ve found 6oz-bamboo-6oz to be more than bullet proof, and as I mentioned earlier, I’m only using so much 6oz because I have a roll of the stuff. When that roll runs out, I’ll definitely use lighter cloth for future boards.

I then hotcoated the deck. This has been my best hotcoat to date, mainly because I took care to make sure all the previous steps were done as best I possibly could. There should be minimal sanding with this one.

The free laps on the bottom were particular messy though, mainly because I glassed in low temps (before bringing the board inside the house once I was sure there would be no resin drips), so the resin was pretty thick and hard to get the glass completely flat.

But it ground down just fine. BTW, I didn’t bother basting the laps this time.

Then I taped off for the hotcoat and resin bead. If you’re still paying attention by this point, maybe you’ll notice that I’ve added another logo just forward of the fins…I’ll get to that shortly.

The hotcoat of the bottom came out quite well, not quite a good as the deck, but I’ll still call it my second best one to date. Doing the resin bead in the same step is so much easier, can’t believe I never attempted to do it on ealier boards.

Now for that extra logo…since this board started from a couple of EPS offcuts, and some scrap bamboo veneer, I’ve been calling it my Frankenstein board. Since it’s my attempt at a mini-simmons style board, it became the “Mini Franken Simmons”. That necessitated a logo, so my wife whipped one up for me.

paulr · May 11, 2012, 1:06pm

And that where I’m at right now. I had to order some fin boxes and leash plugs (from Greenlight, 'cos their goretex leash plug vents are excellent), but since shipping from the USA to Oz takes a little while, it will probably be a couple of weeks before they arrive. So no more work on this board until then!

Cheers
Paul

paulr · May 30, 2012, 12:52pm

Due to overwhelming demand, I thought I’d better continue this thread…

My order from Greenlight arrived with all my fin boxes and leash plug. I started by using my homemade router jig to route out a hole for the 10.5" centre box.

It routed cleanly, but it’s time to get a new router bit I think. The bamboo is taking it’s toll on it.

For the quad boxes, I went with the tried and true Probox. Setting up with the Probox jigs is quick and easy.

All five fin box holes have been routed. If you look closely, there is a little bit of delamination in spots for the centre fin box, I think due to the dull router bit. Never mind, I’ll address that after I set the box.

Previously I’ve just set fin boxes with clear resin, relying on the black boxes to make it look coloured. This time I decided to go with white fin boxes and black resin pigment. However, as is the case with most of my boards, I really only get to work on them after dark. Trying to top up the resin dams with black resin in a poorly lit workspace at night is a little troublesome, so the result was messier than normal.

The centre box was even worse! The problem was that I poured too much resin in the hole before pushing the box down, thus a heap of resin pushed up out of the gap, enough to overflow my Blutak resin dam. I used a heap of 6oz scraps to mop it all up, but the mess was made!

The final result after setting, using my center-fin alignment jig to eyeball the box straight. It’s getting cold here, with overnight lows of around 8C and daytime maximums of about 14C. The next morning the resin was not hard, but at least rubbery enough to remove the blutak around the center box. By tonight, 24hrs after setting them, the resin was hard, but I’ll give it a couple of days to fully harden before grinding them down. I’ve got a lot of black mess to grind on this one…a good learning experience!

That’s it for now, more updates soon.

Cheers
Paul

chippy61 · May 30, 2012, 5:27pm

wow Paul !

that , right there , is an amazing amount of work !!

great photos ,

creativity

and

recycling , no wastage

love all the homemade tools ,

your method to the madness ,

I can't wait to read a ride report ...

....WHERE will you surf it ?

yeah , the 3.5" from the tail , still provides you with a thruster / 2+1 / widowmaker option , and the 10.5" singley box , a nice range of single fin movement .

don't forget ...you can always cut overhang into the trailing base , if you ever want the fin further back towards the tail , or to use a more UPRIGHT fin , in conjunction with side fins

i eagerly await more ...

...this is the first board build photo thread for a while [unless I missed some recently??] ...

I LOVE board build photo threads !!

...ESPECIALLY when they involve such creativity and 'recycling ' of 'scrap' ....

cheers mate , keep up the great work !!

ben , the human cannonball [see avitar photo]

paulr · May 31, 2012, 4:32am

Hey Ben

Thanks for taking the time to read through the thread. I know what you mean about build threads (with photos!), I love reading them so I thought I’d share mine (a standout one I recall was Bud’s backyard build (http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/buds-backyard-build-2011). Not too many since then, except for Huck’s artistic creations!

I’m looking forward to finishing this one and getting it in the water. The big question in my mind right now is do I have first surf as a single, or as a quad?..I think the first surf will be at a particular Surf Coast beachie, but I think it will show it’s true form at Winki on small 2-3 ft day. Definitely looking forward to playing around with fin options on it.

Cheers
Paul

chippy61 · May 31, 2012, 7:23am

[only me , but...a single , but carry two lil bonzer sideys down the beach with you ....and of course , the ever present [ " now , where did I put the b****y thing?!" ] allen key ]

by the way ...

did you ever see "the innermost limits of pure fun " ???

this board of yours reminds me of the one ted spencer shapes [and rides at ?anga?] in that classic movie ...

[? his was maybe a bit shorter and rounder than the Shane ones , that he is holding in the photo with greenough ?]

http://www2.swaylocks.com/node/1012064?page=1

cheers !

ben

paulr · June 2, 2012, 10:09am

Hey Ben

Thanks for that link, I haven’t seen Innermost Limits, but you’re right about the similarity to the singles there, except I have more modern bottom and rails (single to double), rather than the hull bottom. I’ve seen a Ron Wade single from around that era with a rolled (hull?) bottom, and it just looks wrong to me, having never know anything other than modern boards. That photo of you with the orange board is just a classic though!

Cheers
Paul

paulr · June 2, 2012, 10:33am

I pulled the Probox jigs off the bottom to reveal the full amount of grinding I have. At least it’s pretty quick to do with a good variable speed orbital sander. I always have the problem of some resin seeping under the jig, with the black resin making it pretty obvious in this case. Doesn’t really matter, it’s easy enough to grind off, but so far I haven’t been able to prevent it from happening. But given the distinct lack of criticism I’ve received, I must be doing it right!

Next is the leash plug install, which is the excellent Greenlight vented leash plug.

The plug was installed using the proper method, with black resin to finish it off, again using blutak as a resin dam.

The one good thing about working with epoxy in cold temps is that I can do epoxy work at night, go to bed, get up in the morning and it is firm but still rubbery enough to pull tape, or remove blutak, or whatever!

Anyhoo, that’s where I’m at, ready to start grinding plugs and boxes, and sanding the hotcoat.

Cheers
Paul

chippy61 · June 2, 2012, 11:11am

woohoo !

keep going , paul !

" That photo of you with the orange board is just a classic though! "

haha ....cheers !

I had absolutely NO clue what I was doing ...

the guy who took the photo probably should have filmed me trying to surf it that day [as a warning to OTHERS !!]

cheers mate !

ben

bkevans · June 2, 2012, 4:07pm

This board definitely does not look like it was put together from scraps and offcuts…great work! The use of hot wires to minimize the foam dust was a good idea; thanks for posting such a thorough build tread!

jstephen · June 2, 2012, 10:59pm

nice looking board. any rocker pics? and final dimensions please

beerfan · June 3, 2012, 12:11am

Mate, im loving the look of it!!. I’d try it as a single, but that’s just me!! Please let us know how it surfs!

paulr · June 5, 2012, 6:50am

Thanks guys! I’m still a couple of weeks away from finishing this one (busy at work and waiting on shed-time during daylight hours - don’t want to upset the neighbours with a power sander at night!). I’ll post up rocker pics and final dimensions when it’s all done.

@beerfan, you and ben have convinced me, I’ll see if I can fabricate a suitable single fin for this board…

Cheers
Paul