I’m having trouble finding the answer to my question in the archives.I will be installing fin plugs shortly into divinycell foam,can this be done using the same technique as a poly plug install just with epoxy and d-cell instead?Will Polyester melt d-cell if used to do a plug install? Thanks,I promise to post board porn when I’m done.
No problem with poly, and d-cell. Epoxy is OK too.
Thanks Bill,your a good man.
D-cell was my favorite insert material, FCS was even supplying them for a while (they also had hd PU and hd EPS). The Fusion system was developed to avoid the melt-out in EPS that makes the inserts necessary. The big difference doing an install in the inserts is that you don’t do the H-pattern (unless you run the insert to the deck). Just do the plug cavity and go, very simple.
Have you ever tried 2 part urethane foam?
I’ve also used the Hilti spray from a can. The spray stuff only works if you go all the way to the deck because its not all that rigid. The two part urethane is easy, and it can be tinted. Stay away from the 2 pound urethane because it crumbles too easy. The 4 pound gets real hard. Done in 15 minutes, and no need to glue the insert in and wait for the insert glue to dry.
All of this is moot for Coil’s application because the Fusion system works so well.
I never used two-part because the pre-cut inserts, jig to route cavity, and the bit were all supplied by FCS. Shape the board, mark the fins, route the hole, vac the insert in the lam (no glueing it in first). Then it’s just a normal FCS install (minus the H-pattern) after the hotcoat.
I’m thinkin’ Jesus is doing a cored-skin build, so he has a couple of options as to how/when he does the inserts. But the D-cell is one of the best materials available if you choose to do inserts instead of using Fusion.
As only a garage builder, I wouldn’t argue with your judgement. But for us little guys, $250 for a sheet of 3/4 D-cell is a lot of money. Also the step of glueing in the plug gets skippped. Since I’m only working on one board at a time, I hate waiting for those little steps like waiting for the plug epoxy to cure. With the two part I’m done in minutes. Maybe different if they still supplied only the plugs.
The fusion system is great unless you are tinting the epoxy. Even on paint, I like the little FCS hole better than the larger white area. I used them once with carbon fiber, and it was a mess. The carbon wouldn’t stay conformed to the fusion bump. Maybe if I vacuumed it…but even then when you sand it, you won’t get a precise line at the edge of the carbon.
You said that you don’t glue in the fusion insert? Without giving away any trade secrets, how do you align the angle of the fusion box, and vacuum bag the laminate all in one step? You must have fins installed in the inserts inside the bag? What do you use to hold them in place?
Sorry for the confusion, what I was saying was no need to glue in/align the D-cell insert because there was going to be a conventional FCS plug install after the bagging. That’s where the fin set/align would occur.
With Fusion, we have another way of ‘‘setting’’, but it doesn’t involve fins in the bag.
I admit we’re a little spoiled by having the D-cell inserts, etc. supplied to us by FCS. But if you poke around, you could probably get some insert-sized scrap pieces from a boat or aircraft mfr in your area. But the 2-part DIY works good too, so you’re covered.
And I’m always amazed at the sophistication of some of the ‘‘garage’’ builders here on sways. I started in a garage too, and hope to always have at least a part of one foot (and my heart) back in the garage.
precision board is similar to corcel but allot cheaper alot more temp resistant but a llitle more UV sensitive.
XPS will work as well as will PU
PU scraps are basically free if you stop by a local surf shop.
balsa as suggested by Herb is good too but water intrusion is a problem
Hey there, everyday surfer
the only thing i have found from experience with the 2part [doing repairs only!!!] is that the foam is very uneven,
i mean, the bubbles are sometimes big, sometimes small. anyway to get a more even bubble size?
should i tape up the space, so that the expansion is minimized?
thanks for your feedback.
Wouter
p.s. jesus, you better post that porn !!
Hi Wouter,
First, I wish it was everyday surfer! Lately it seems like its everymonth! Everysurfer like everyman, unremarkable in every way. I’m just the kook next to you in the line-up tryin to have a little fun.
Now onto the foam. Yea, it can be uneven. But different brands are different. The less it rapidly expands, the better. Keep the stuff on the cool side. Also. keep it contained when expanding. For a ding, wrap it in shrink wrap. For the plugs, tape over the opening. Keep it under a little pressure.
Now for the tricky one. HIGH DENSITY RAILS! Put the board on edge. Make a dam with masking tape. Pour the foam into the masking tape mold. Cover with plastic sheeting. Hint #1. - don’t do the entire rail in one try. only a foot or two at a time. otherwise it will run downhill before it expands, and get too thick at the nose and tail. Hint #2. Don’t use 2 pound. Its way too weak. so airy, that you can’t shape it.
I’ve been thinking about taking a piece of pvc pipe and sawing it in half lengthwise. Using a heat gun soften it so that it is flexible. Bend it to the contour of an existing and similar board. let it cool, and use that as a mould. Pour in the foam, and quickly tape over the top. Make one for each rail. That wil be for my next board.
Since I’m purely a garage builder for myself, it will be a little while till I get to try out that technique. I had to promise my wife no more boards until either I break one, or she gets a swimming pool. In this economy, that could be years… Yikes!
Here’s one with 1lb ish eps foam and PU rails from another build,it will have bamboo on both sides.
D-cell fish,its too light…never really seen a problem like that with a board until now.
I just used the pour foam on the rails of my new stringerless board. I bought the 8 lb from fiberglasssupply. It might be too stiff, but I haven’t been able to test it out lately. I did the same thing (masking tape dam). I don’t think I’ll be doing this again b/c it’s kind of expensive and the rails start out so irregular without a good mold. I’ve thought about covering an EPS core with the 8 lb as the top/bottom skins, though.
Hey Jesus,
Sorry for taking this thread in a different direction.
Ghostshaper, Have you thought about the professional PU spray guns? Not the out of the can stuff, but the two part, mix in the gun high density stuff? They use it for insulation and in the movie industry for sets. Also in landscaping for those big foam rocks. Its a little expensive to start, I think the gun is around $300.00. But you could take that 1 pound eps core and spray a skin over it and be set. With enough volume, way cheaper than the D cell or core cell sheets.
Right now there is either a compsand guy with a lightbulb going off in his head, or another one who is screaming at me for giving away his secret!
As long as I’m giving away secrets yet to be tried, in the building industry, Dow Blue foam was first designed to be used as an insulation under synthetic stucco. The plasterers use a bonding adhesive on it to get the synthetic stucco to stick. Might be an idea yet to be tried. Use their primer thinned out to get the epoxy to stick to it.
oops
everysurfer !!
we could also use offcuts at a set distance and then do a pour.
but i guess i will use the very expensive corecell for a while, that i bought without thinking
and then look for sheets of 5# EPS, or comparable stuff.
BTW: i dont think your a cook, but you may always post videos of yourself. [joke ;)]
here is mine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bBZISD-2KM
Isn’t that what Swaylocks is about?! 
everysurfer … feel free to call or email the San Diego FCS Office and we’ll send you some HD Foam Inserts. I have both 8lb EPS and 6lb PU from Warvel
These are approx 4" x 1.625" and 3/4" deep - rounded end rectangle and symmentrical - designed to encapulate the two plugs perfectly. We’ve provided these to dozen’s of boardbuilders at no charge with the FCS plugs …
office 858 300 2640
Best regards
Bryant
Hey Bryant,
Thanks, appreciate the offer and you’ll be hearing from me soon.
Question, How does the 3/4" thick insert work with the H pattern? That’s where I usually melt the EPS. It seems like a 1 1/2" diameter plug about 2" long would do the trick. That plug could be inserted in the blank prior to shaping, then the FCS plug would be installed just like it were a PU board. Better yet if the foam plug were white!
How about FCS two part white PU foam. In a syringe with a mixing tip like the epoxy companies make. In a size big enough to fill 6 -1 1/2" diameter x 2" deep holes. (or eight holes for a quad - or 10 for a griffin). Graduation marks on the side of the syringe to measure the correct dosage per hole. The shaper would line up the locations prior to glassing, drill a hole through the blank with a hole saw. Put masking tape on the bottom. Squirt the pre-measured dose of two part into the hole. Cover the top with tape. Wait ten minutes, and shave off the mushroom head. Install as normal. I’ll be expecting my royalty check in the mail! (just kidding) This would also be great for ding repair.
I really like the idea of the H pattern connecting through to the deck, and this gets lost with the fusion. I’ve mentioned this in a previous post, but I only like the look of the fusion in a white board. Also when drilling in 1 pound eps you really don’t get the cleanest hole. The liquid two part would fill all the voids.
every-
The 3/4" thickness works as you don’t need an H-Pattern when encapsulated in HD Foam (especially with epoxy). We have done extensive testing over the past 3+ years with EPS/Epoxy and PU/PE installations (glassing and installs from Steve Ford, TNT, Tiger G, Scat from Diamond, Inertia and a few more) … we’ve tested everything from Lok-Box to all FCS Plugs, Fusion, Plugs in HD Foam, Futures and a few mysto-systems and here’s what we;ve learned…
FCS Plugs 25%-30% stronger than Futures in lateral break strength
FCS Fusion 30%-40% stronger than Futures in lateral break strength (and way higher in side impact tests)
FCS X2 Plugs in HD Foam (as we’re discussing) 30%-40% stronger than Futures plus great impact resistance
The HD Foam Inserts have been provided for free to all boardbuilders that wanted them…including the router template and router bit … just ask for it when you order your plugs and fins. When Fusion came on the market, it killed most of the HD Foam use with plugs just for ease and spedd of total install. Most oif the users were production oriented and time was money for them… plus no reason not to use Fusion unless your bottom geometry (deep six?) and fin placement conflict… I actually have a beautiful Hank Warner 6’9" deep six with HD foam and X2 plugs.
Please feel free to call me in the office 858-300-2640 and we can discuss any details.
Best regards
Bryant
all eyes on this side!!