I was able to get a hold of one of Habour’s curious High Performance Longboard fins (see http://www.harboursurfshop.com/harbourgear.html ). This one is shaped like a J laid on its long side, see picture. So I popped in on a longboard, and off I went. The waves were at best about 5 foot (chest high or so), but clean with nice peaks. With my new fin I took off on a wave, dropping in with the hopes of making a nice little bottom turn, stalling slightly and then running forward a bit (towards the nose) as the board and I climbed back up the face,… aaaah, but it was not to be. As I came out of the bottom turn, expecting to be headed almost if not parallel to, or possibly slightly back into the wave, my board simply turned the other way, or least wasn’t going to allow me to turn the way I wanted. This happened repeated. (See diagram. I’ve shown the case where I was hoping to head slightly back into wave.) I was able to avoid the problem by avoiding situations which heavily loaded the fin, torsionally that is. The fin did more or less stabilize the ride somewhat, if you stayed away from anything that could conceivable load it. (Its got a long rake, yet relatively short base and a lot of flex.) I suspect I haven’t given this fin its do, that is I suspect others have had a lot more success with it. (Harbor has chosen to call it a high performance fin, and continues to sell it, so there’s a good chance I am in a minority.) For me however, it an extreme case of something which I have real problems with, flex without control, especially the type which requires high loading, and ultimately a ‘high’ releasing of that loading. The releasing of all that elastic energy was almost instantaneous at the bottom of the turn (actually just a little after the bottom point.) (Which makes me wonder about the Rusty’s Flex model, see Rusty thread, but since I know ‘dick’ about Rusty’s new model I will leave it alone.) Of course not all flexible fins are so punishing when they unload, but this puppy was brutal. If I’m to continue using it, I think I might have to learn a new sport, fin surfing… naah, I think I sell it to the first ‘weird fin’ enthusiast that wants it. The point of this post, aside from a subjective ‘fin review’, is a reiteration of a point made in past threads, that the value flex without control is kind’a questionable. … and this is for Dale (if he reads this)… you are in control over the flex with surfmats! I understand and see that clearly now… shoulders, abdomen, hips all can be brought to bear on controlling the flex. But here,… its like dealing with a loose loaded slingshot ready to go off… …Bonnggg! 
I saw that fin in a magazine and thought the template was interesting…I made two fins; each with a 1/8" wood core…One had the wood grain vertical, the other horizontal…These fins were flexible, especially the vertical one…I rode them on my 10’4" longboard and had a blast!!! I was at a shop that had one of those Harbour fins, picked it up, and was surprised how heavy it was, and how rigid it was…Like a rock…Solid fiberglass fins SUCK (in my opinion)…
I was able to get a hold of one of Habours curious High Performance > Longboard fins (see http://www.harboursurfshop.com/harbourgear.html ). > This one is shaped like a J laid on its long side, see picture. So I > popped in on a longboard, and off I went.>>> The waves were at best about 5 foot (chest high or so), but clean with > nice peaks. With my new fin I took off on a wave, dropping in with the > hopes of making a nice little bottom turn, stalling slightly and then > running forward a bit (towards the nose) as the board and I climbed back > up the face,… aaaah, but it was not to be.>>> As I came out of the bottom turn, expecting to be headed almost if not > parallel to, or possibly slightly back into the wave, my board simply > turned the other way, or least wasnt going to allow me to turn the way I > wanted. This happened repeated. (See diagram. Ive shown the case where I > was hoping to head slightly back into wave.)>>> I was able to avoid the problem by avoiding situations which heavily > loaded the fin, torsionally that is. The fin did more or less stabilize > the ride somewhat, if you stayed away from anything that could conceivable > load it. (Its got a long rake, yet relatively short base and a lot of > flex.)>>> I suspect I havent given this fin its do, that is I suspect others have > had a lot more success with it. (Harbor has chosen to call it a high > performance fin, and continues to sell it, so theres a good chance I am > in a minority.) For me however, it an extreme case of something which I > have real problems with, flex without control, especially the type which > requires high loading, and ultimately a high releasing of that loading.>>> The releasing of all that elastic energy was almost instantaneous at the > bottom of the turn (actually just a little after the bottom point.) (Which > makes me wonder about the Rustys Flex model, see Rusty thread, but since > I know dick about Rustys new model I will leave it alone.) Of course > not all flexible fins are so punishing when they unload, but this puppy > was brutal. If Im to continue using it, I think I might have to learn a > new sport, fin surfing… naah, I think I sell it to the first weird fin > enthusiast that wants it.>>> The point of this post, aside from a subjective fin review, is a > reiteration of a point made in past threads, that the value flex without > control is kinda questionable.>>> … and this is for Dale (if he reads this)… you are in control over the > flex with surfmats! I understand and see that clearly now… shoulders, > abdomen, hips all can be brought to bear on controlling the flex. But > here,… its like dealing with a loose loaded slingshot ready to go > off… …Bonnggg! Kevin, what is happening is that the tail is unable of drive forward as you load up the fin. The energy is being lost to the flex, with that narrow of a fin it need more stiffness to compensate for the lack of area.
The waves were at best about 5 foot (chest high or so), but clean with > nice peaks. With my new fin I took off on a wave, dropping in with the > hopes of making a nice little bottom turn, stalling slightly and then > running forward a bit (towards the nose) as the board and I climbed back > up the face,… aaaah, but it was not to be. > As I came out of the bottom turn, expecting to be headed almost if not > parallel to, or possibly slightly back into the wave, my board simply > turned the other way, or least wasnt going to allow me to turn the way I > wanted. This happened repeated. > I suspect I havent given this fin its do, that is I suspect others have > had a lot more success with it. Kevin – how big of a board were you riding? And where in the fin box did you mount it? (I suspect that if you shoved the thing all the way forward towards the nose of the board it might work better)… Also maybe try it on a smaller board before you give up on the thing. If you decide it ain’t worth spit post it for sale here. I like trying weird fins. They don’t always work but it’s good to experiment.
My buddy who weighs 200 and rides a 10’6" Greek eliminator has the same fin in a tad bigger size…10’5" or maybe even 11. Not sure, anyway he seems to have no problem making the thing go wherever he wants. Amazing considering the size of him and his board. The fin in question is probably simply an acquired feel. You know…like try it for a couple more sessions. I use the Wingnut Longrake. Nice and firm. The thing is awsome…or maybe that’s just my board. Perhaps we place to much emphasis on fins in general. Like maybe that if the boarrd doesn’t ride well, then we can always blame it on a fin. Not that that is what you’re doing here, but in general the whole fin experience in my opinion is overated. But that’s just my 1.75 cents
I use the Wingnut Longrake. Nice and firm. The thing is awsome…or maybe > that’s just my board. Perhaps we place to much emphasis on fins in > general. Like maybe that if the boarrd doesn’t ride well, then we can > always blame it on a fin. Not that that is what you’re doing here, but in > general the whole fin experience in my opinion is overated.>>> But that’s just my 1.75 cents I dunno. I have a Robert August Mark Martinson 9’ (singlefin) board that I bought from a friend because he didn’t like it. I had lots of problems with the board too, seemed to “stick” in turns and in general didn’t feel right. I moved the fin around, surfed it lots of different waves, but still very stiff… I was about ready to sell the board too, but then I put a different fin (smaller) on it and WOW now it works great. Smooth as silk in the turns…
Kevin – how big of a board were you riding? And where in the fin box did > you mount it? (I suspect that if you shoved the thing all the way forward > towards the nose of the board it might work better)… Also maybe try it > on a smaller board before you give up on the thing. If you decide it ain’t > worth spit post it for sale here. I like trying weird fins. They don’t > always work but it’s good to experiment. In order to provide optimum performance, even a good fin will have to be tuned to the board, the waves you surf and how you ride… at their best, off the shelf, mass-produced fins are a crap shoot… at their worst, the wrong fin can ruin the right board. You can gain an intimate understanding of fins, particularly as they apply to YOU, by means of initially experimenting with an over-sized slab skeg, (ala early 60
s, but fitted to a fin box), and gradually cutting and sanding it down as function and preferences dictate. Its helpful to maintain a log of detailed notes and photographs, as well as working twins from different stages, for comparison. For any surfer who wants to experiment, but doesn`t have the time, talent or budget for the investment in frequent, new surfboards… playing around with the fins/fin boxes will provide maximum return on mimimal effort and expense.
Had a Harbour rake fin and I think it’s a matter of figuring it out. “Punching” a turn and expecting to go vert might not be the best approach. It’s got a really long rake so a leaning/gliding approach might eliminate the rebound you’re experiencing. Mine eventually developed stress cracks at the narrow section of the cutaway.
My buddy who weighs 200 and rides a 10’6" Greek eliminator has the > same fin in a tad bigger size…10’5" or maybe even 11. Not sure, > anyway he seems to have no problem making the thing go wherever he wants. > Amazing considering the size of him and his board. The fin in question is > probably simply an acquired feel. You know…like try it for a couple more > sessions.>>> I use the Wingnut Longrake. Nice and firm. The thing is awsome…or maybe > that’s just my board. Perhaps we place to much emphasis on fins in > general. Like maybe that if the boarrd doesn’t ride well, then we can > always blame it on a fin. Not that that is what you’re doing here, but in > general the whole fin experience in my opinion is overated.>>> But that’s just my 1.75 cents my 2 cents says not enough attention/experimentation is happening with fins-they are what drives a board what allows it to turn, as well as keep it all in balance while on a wave.Much more work to be done.
I was able to get a hold of one of Habours curious High Performance > Longboard fins (see http://www.harboursurfshop.com/harbourgear.html ). > This one is shaped like a J laid on its long side, see picture. So I > popped in on a longboard, and off I went.>>> The waves were at best about 5 foot (chest high or so), but clean with > nice peaks. With my new fin I took off on a wave, dropping in with the > hopes of making a nice little bottom turn, stalling slightly and then > running forward a bit (towards the nose) as the board and I climbed back > up the face,… aaaah, but it was not to be.>>> As I came out of the bottom turn, expecting to be headed almost if not > parallel to, or possibly slightly back into the wave, my board simply > turned the other way, or least wasnt going to allow me to turn the way I > wanted. This happened repeated. (See diagram. Ive shown the case where I > was hoping to head slightly back into wave.)>>> I was able to avoid the problem by avoiding situations which heavily > loaded the fin, torsionally that is. The fin did more or less stabilize > the ride somewhat, if you stayed away from anything that could conceivable > load it. (Its got a long rake, yet relatively short base and a lot of > flex.)>>> I suspect I havent given this fin its do, that is I suspect others have > had a lot more success with it. (Harbor has chosen to call it a high > performance fin, and continues to sell it, so theres a good chance I am > in a minority.) For me however, it an extreme case of something which I > have real problems with, flex without control, especially the type which > requires high loading, and ultimately a high releasing of that loading.>>> The releasing of all that elastic energy was almost instantaneous at the > bottom of the turn (actually just a little after the bottom point.) (Which > makes me wonder about the Rustys Flex model, see Rusty thread, but since > I know dick about Rustys new model I will leave it alone.) Of course > not all flexible fins are so punishing when they unload, but this puppy > was brutal. If Im to continue using it, I think I might have to learn a > new sport, fin surfing… naah, I think I sell it to the first weird fin > enthusiast that wants it.>>> The point of this post, aside from a subjective fin review, is a > reiteration of a point made in past threads, that the value flex without > control is kinda questionable.>>> … and this is for Dale (if he reads this)… you are in control over the > flex with surfmats! I understand and see that clearly now… shoulders, > abdomen, hips all can be brought to bear on controlling the flex. But > here,… its like dealing with a loose loaded slingshot ready to go > off… …Bonnggg! in my opinion, if you want to snap up the face sooner try a different fin-the rake and area configuration of this fin say to me "long, drawn out turns,with some sling to project you down the line…"However, before disposing of it move it around in the box,build up the front edge with some bondo and foil accordingly.These things could help in tuning it in to that particular board and wave.Have fun experimenting!
I was able to get a hold of one of Habour’s curious High Performance > Longboard fins (see http://www.harboursurfshop.com/harbourgear.html ). > This one is shaped like a J laid on its long side, see picture. So I > popped in on a longboard, and off I went.>>> The waves were at best about 5 foot (chest high or so), but clean with > nice peaks. With my new fin I took off on a wave, dropping in with the > hopes of making a nice little bottom turn, stalling slightly and then > running forward a bit (towards the nose) as the board and I climbed back > up the face,… aaaah, but it was not to be.>>> As I came out of the bottom turn, expecting to be headed almost if not > parallel to, or possibly slightly back into the wave, my board simply > turned the other way, or least wasn’t going to allow me to turn the way I > wanted. This happened repeated. (See diagram. I’ve shown the case where I > was hoping to head slightly back into wave.)>>> I was able to avoid the problem by avoiding situations which heavily > loaded the fin, torsionally that is. The fin did more or less stabilize > the ride somewhat, if you stayed away from anything that could conceivable > load it. (Its got a long rake, yet relatively short base and a lot of > flex.)>>> I suspect I haven’t given this fin its do, that is I suspect others have > had a lot more success with it. (Harbor has chosen to call it a high > performance fin, and continues to sell it, so there’s a good chance I am > in a minority.) For me however, it an extreme case of something which I > have real problems with, flex without control, especially the type which > requires high loading, and ultimately a ‘high’ releasing of that loading.>>> The releasing of all that elastic energy was almost instantaneous at the > bottom of the turn (actually just a little after the bottom point.) (Which > makes me wonder about the Rusty’s Flex model, see Rusty thread, but since > I know ‘dick’ about Rusty’s new model I will leave it alone.) Of course > not all flexible fins are so punishing when they unload, but this puppy > was brutal. If I’m to continue using it, I think I might have to learn a > new sport, fin surfing… naah, I think I sell it to the first ‘weird fin’ > enthusiast that wants it.>>> The point of this post, aside from a subjective ‘fin review’, is a > reiteration of a point made in past threads, that the value flex without > control is kind’a questionable.>>> … and this is for Dale (if he reads this)… you are in control over the > flex with surfmats! I understand and see that clearly now… shoulders, > abdomen, hips all can be brought to bear on controlling the flex. But > here,… its like dealing with a loose loaded slingshot ready to go > off… …Bonnggg! I’ve always been into flex -yea sometimes out of control but I love the slingshot effect especially on cutbacks and off the tops----never tried one of the Harbour fins but I have made an even more extreme version of what you had–mine is 9.5 with even more rake and flex and I love it —I also really like the templete Greg Loehr did for Rainbow Fin Co. I sell em like hotcakes at Denny’s as a second fin for my longboards --so outside of some basics style differences this could be like the single fin vs the 2+1 everyone has a different take on it ----thats why we have fin boxes
I was initially interested in the fin because I saw it as somewhat of an extreme case. But given the response to my comments, maybe its not so extreme. Interesting comments, and good advice… thanks all. Kevin
Kevin – how big of a board were you riding? And where in the fin box did > you mount it? (I suspect that if you shoved the thing all the way forward > towards the nose of the board it might work better)… Also maybe try it > on a smaller board before you give up on the thing. If you decide it ain’t > worth spit post it for sale here. I like trying weird fins. They don’t > always work but it’s good to experiment. Keith, you get first shot. If you want the fin, make a gift of $28 ($25 + $3 shipping) to Swaylock’s, if (or when) Swaylock emails me that he’s recieved the contribution I’ll send the fin to you. (At some point, you will have to email me your address… and if you live in Tasmania or someplace like that, add a little more to the postage please.) If I don’t receive anything from Swaylock by the 20th, I’ll sell it locally. By the way, forward or back, it is simply to much whip for me. Call me a control freak, but I tend to agree with Jim Phillips comments in general. The fin is soaking up energy, which, given my style of surfing, I am unlikely to recover. (I think that makes me a ‘stiffy’?) Let me know if you want the fin. Kevin
The point of this post, aside from a subjective fin review, is a > reiteration of a point made in past threads, that the value flex without > control is kinda questionable. I don’t buy the flex without control argument. It’s like saying you cannot control a car but your hands are nowhere near the wheel. Sorry for some snowboard content, but I cannot help myself. I once owned a carbon fibre snowboard. Big deal back then, costed major bucks, but if your a tech junkie you are a tech junkie. The pop out of a turn was unbelievable! at first it screwed up my timing totally because when you unloaded it would bounce into the next turn. You could bounce several meters into the next turn. Once I got used to it turning became totally effortless. Instead of initalizing the next turn I’d just ‘unload’ the current turn and the next turn started by itself. If you can decide when you load the fin, you can decide when you want it to unload. It might not like it, it might not work for you, it might not be all that great. But you’re still in charge. Maybe holding the turn a little longer would have worked. It should also be possible to make a fin that unloaded a little slower by differnt choice of materials. regards, Håvard
For your information: In the beginning, over a six month period this fin concept went through 22 changes, probably one of the most extensive fin researches ever. We developed 3 sizes, each similar but not a photographic blow up of the smaller version. Looking back I can see one of the problems that I didn’t see then. Our test pilots are all slender, athletic surfers. Only one was over 165 lbs. and his views on many (surfboard) design opinions have been suspect with me. Because of the needs of heavier surfers, the 9.5 and 10.0 HP-1 fins are going through some design modifications. I am making the neck wider to lessen the “wag”. This design change will be available in late summer or early fall. There is however, so much more to be discussed. No one who posted on this site gave enough information. How long was their board, how wide was it and, what was the nose width, tail width, tail rail shape, mid rail shape, what does it weigh, how thick is it at mid-ship, how much does the rider weigh, and what size and power was the surf that it was ridden in, how many inches from the tail was the fin, and how many 1/8" adjustments were made? People that liked the fin probably had most of the above correct. People who didn’t, bought the fin on impulse without talking to someone who knows surfboards. This is where we really get into a problem, as from the brief encounters that I have had with this BB, there are many people who may not have not done enough research from credible people. Rich Harbour was nice enough to respond to my inquires about his High Performance Fin. His comments are pretty interesting and require no comment from me, other than I appear to be one of those people who failed to do the required research. My apologies to Rich, and all.