Damn is an explative not a condemnation used in this context. Persistance in excess is a vice. But, now I’m just feeding your ego so I’m out.
Hey Tom,
You really gotta feel for Roy, after all it’s not easy living with a persecution complex along with the fact that a surfboard around 8 feet long that weighs over 20 pounds is gonna be pretty tough sell in 2004, but keep tryin’ Roy somebodies gotta be out there that’ll fall in love with your work.
Roy,
Just remember that when you show up on a thread don’t come waving the Stewart flag all the time. Design discussion is about staying relatively objective an sticking to the topic that the submitter heads the tread up with.
I’m not interested in getting into personal issues or defining and sorting out a bunch of shit. I just like to come here and learn as much as I can and share a few things I’ve learned along the way with a bit of humility because I know there are lots of people here way smarter than I am.
Mahalo, Rich
Mahalo, Rich
I am not trying to sell my work. I enjoy sparring with you boys and don’t feel persecuted at all. If you want to talk objective hydrodynamics then get on with it. I will be right here.
You guys need to go easy on Roy
he been hit in head alot with wooden surfboard
and dallyance with alcohol.
Roy do you make your own beer too?
Take Care.
The word which you claim is an expletive is also a curse, particularly in the context in which you used it (attached to my name) and is offensive in a spiritual sense as well. Did you have to repeat the word? Go and wash your mouth out with soap.
cmon guys, avoid personal/ad hominem attacks and agree to disagree and move on.
Fine, but it is possible to disagree without using offensive language. I have made no personal attacks whatsoever but I will not stand by and be abused without defending myself.
Sir,
As I am a non drinker I must point out that your statement is untrue. To put it bluntly, I don’t drink alcohol. R.S.
PS Your grammar and spelling are appalling. There is a spell check button on the bottom of every page. Try using it.
I am so sorry, you mentioned alcohol in another post.
Also, I notice you post close to 250 times in 3 weeks
So I could not understand that you did not no longer.
Take Care.
maybe you already know about this.
Why are you posting me an alcohol addiction programme? This is a surfing forum. I don’t drink, ok? If you don’t like me posting so many messages then stop heckling me with abusive non surfing related nonsense. I will not remain silent when people post slanderous messages about me in a public forum. Please stop this behaviour. R.S.
I’ve just about had ENOUGH of this venomous talk, and you should be ashamed of yourself for commenting on something you know nothing about and especially people you do not know. This is about fins and hydrodynamics not personal attacks. Get over it and on with it!!!
Hicksy
For a number of reasons, this topic has just about run its course for now…too much good cake to frost with vitrol. If you want to talk about fins, fine. If not, its time to move on…
Roy, IMO you often present as a confrontational zealot. I consider that you’ve frequently been a target of derision from other surfers regarding your choice of equipment: looongboards, fin(s) sunsuit and helmet, apparently passionate environmental concerns. But, you ARE marching to a different drummer.
Is your provocative attitude deliberate? If so, it’s worth considering that you’re tainting your otherwise interesting, worthy, concept with this approach.
OK - I think it’s unlocked. Again, my apologies - this is an interesting thread in spite of static.
I just wanted to post photos of my current dual spiral vortex fin project in what I feel is proper context.
First layers of carbon have been laid up over “high tech” molding device I borrowed from the kitchen. Original paper template has been trimmed substantially and will be used as pattern for Dremel tool cutting. Will add foam strips, foil and cover with more carbon/fiberglass. The plan is to leave enough excess flash to build up FCS style tabs.
John,
That's an intrigueing design evolution, that resembles a cross between Roy Stewarts tunnel and Greg Webber's CRVs. IMHO how you combine foil cross sections throughout this system will have a great infuence on how it performs.
I remember seeing old pictures of a somewhat similar fin built by Greg Loehr (I think) way back when. Not really rounded but still it had the fore/aft twinzer-type arrangement. Anyone have the pictures?
John, I’ll be following this project with interest! The idea that prompted me to post that sketch was originally conceived to remove the sharp “tip” from the fin. The waves I like are powerful shorebreak (I mean beachbreak), and after having pulled the tip of a fiberglass fin out of the meat of the back of my thigh and also after trying out one of those fins that had polyurethane skateboard wheel material over a fiberglass core (fish fins? Anybody else try one?) that were so darn heavy, I needed a high performance solution. You say Greg Loehr already made one?
I’ve been thinking that this type of fin would be perfect for a paipo board…and why not a surfboard?
ps. What happened to the whale bumps fin?
Hi John, Roy recently posted some diagrams of tunnel fin theory over on the surfer.com forum. Some of them diagram the differences in dual tunnels like you are testing and the big single tunnel of roy’s boards or your paipo. I don’t know if he’s tested dual tunnels or is just speculating on their lesser effectiveness based on theory. Well, actually I assume he’s tried everything at least once over the years. Anyway, thoughts on his thoughts?
Here’s a link to the first thread over there. There is a part two thread as well.
Rich -
First off, I’d just like to mention that my dual hoop/spiral vortex concept board hasn’t even been built yet, much less tested so I’m basically making it up as I go. Technically, it isn’t even a spiral but then neither was a spiral vee. I suppose that water spinning off it could result in some spiral vortices however.
If you check my original post on “dual hoop fin paipo concept” I mention that Roy was contacted regarding his thoughts. His thoughtful response was received and appreciated.
Also mentioned, in a response to Lawless, is that with a paipo there is the possibility of grabbing the rails with both hands, leaning and “wrestling it” into maneuvers. Since the hull is so short, any tendency to track can hopefully be overcome with a bit of body english and rail grabbing.
I read the posts on tunnel hull behavior via your link and can see that, in theory, a single hoop has a rotational quality that is different than a double hoop. If you take a look at my paper prototype templates, you will note that the taper at the hoop apex on my design is quite narrow. Not sure if it will really cause the type of resistance Roy talks about as they are quite different from a solid tube. Also, in actual practice, rail bulk and planing surfaces of a board’s bottom provide a bit of resistance all by themselves even with no
fin(s).
I’m not sure that the “catastrophic release” phenomenon is going to happen in actual practice. Bear in mind that on my paipo there will be at a minimum (assuming full bank with outer hoop completely out of water as diagram suggests), rail edges, concaves, what amounts to 2 small fins, the connecting portion of the hoop and various parts of my body in contact with the water at all times unless actually airborne. More likely, most of the bottom (including both hoops - 4 fins) will be in contact. Even if there is a momentary side slip - on a paipo it’s no big deal.
I’m thinking that there is probably enough fin surface area, even in the 4 parts that actually connect to the board that it will basically function as a quad. They (quads) don’t necessarily spin out or suffer catastrophic release when banked. The connecting portion of the hoop that in theory resists banking effort may actually provide a small measure of additional stability at speed.
If you check this link to Bud McCray’s “Blast” kneeboard site (one of my favorites), he has a photo page that features some of his riders in waves that are frankly, more than I’ll ever be riding on my paipo. (http://www.blasthawaii.com/index2.htm) His latest board designs are mainly quads and even in the gnarliest photos, they seem to be holding well. I don’t see any shots of riders so far up on a rail that the outer fins are clear of water flow resulting in any kind of catastrophic failure.
Thanks John. I’m really looking forward to hearing how the board works and watching the development of it. I’m always drawn to thinking like yours that is “outside the box”. One of these days I hope to do some experimenting myself. (until then i’ll just ride my wide but quite rockered 7’4" “egg” type fiberglass board with a big honkin’ raked single fin. it’s such a blast!)