Canned meat commonly preferred by locals in the the Pacific Islands
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Deano - That's some great info, but did you mean the boards felt 1 foot longer/shorter?
What happened to the offset disks?
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Hi TaylorO,
the boards felt 1 inch shorter or 1 inch longer by rotating the disc around and experimenting with either the fin closer to the rail or closer to the stringer...
we are talking subtle changes here that can create that "special" feeling in each board... but it's exciting riding something you know, and then adding another dimension to it... it really opens your mind to performance possibilities never previously imagined....
regarding availability, we did a series of CNC milled INTER-DISC's to test the effects and right now, we may do a 1/8" OFF-SET INTER-DISC release this year still, but right now, our focus will be to get shapers/surfers to understand the effects of toe-in or out, up + down movement and changing splays which should keep everyone VERY busy for the next few years still.
As soon as this is achieved, we can release many different progressions of movements to make the experimentation of adjustment of fins , and easy one!
will keep u all posted.
Regards
Deano
Hey Deano -
Would the 1/8" off set add up to 1/4" difference between the two positions, or is the inter disk off set by 1/16" adding up to the 1/8" difference?
Does anyone care to reconcile Deano’s findings with Blakestah’s? I’m not sure I can. I’ve set fins with 12+ degress cant with the trailing edge base @ 1 1/2" from the rail and it went well, but I’ve not gone closer than 1 1/4", I dont’ think, so I can’t speak to that side of the experience.
As for the +/- 1" in length… Goes to show what a kook I am - I’m not sure I’d nottice a few inches difference - my quive goes in 8", 11", and 21" steps… Ha!
yes, 1/4" difference ( the 1/8 offset discs are 1/8" off the shapers original mark...)
regards
Deano
Thanks Deano -
No takers on the difference in experience/explanation moving the fin 1/4" in/out…
The rail on the outside of the fin helps keep the flow attached because of the it doesn’t let the water flow off of the rail and fin in the wrong direction. Remember, the hull changes the direction of the flow before the fin.
The reason boards are less responsive when the fins are set closer to the stringer is because there is too much lift created by the hull outside of the fin countering the surfers weight shift, so it takes more pressure (from the surfers weight shift) to overcome the lift.
variables, my favorite aspect of building boards. With quad rear fin placement I found placement closer to stringer combined with double foiled fins to be very loose and responsive while single foiled "edge" placement offered more hold and power. Changing the bottom from a single concave to slight "v" to an overall flatter but adding subtle double concave through the last third(approx.) of the bottom put me on another path entirely. Tail rocker seems to come in play also.
Thruster edge placement much more restrictive than quads obviously. Most days feel like I am dying,scary.
OK - Now were getting some where… Thanks you guys… So, here’s what we’ve got so far…
From Blakestah: Fins further outboard than 1.125" from the rail get real
pivot-y/draggy (in turns). The water needs to re-attach behind the fin
before it exits over the rail. If not, you lose the interactions with
the bottom of the board, and a lot of re-direction capability. Moving
inboard will weaken the fin but the interaction will stay basically the
same, and it is much less sensitive than moving it outboard.
These measures are taken from the rear base of the fin to the vertical projection of the rail.
From Deano: the noticeable effects of moving the SAME fins in the same position (
but closer to the rail ) were, the board reacted quicker rail-to-rail
as if it is was 1" shorter which was amazing for smaller conditions …
with the same set of fins it felt like i had a shorter surfboard,
supa-responsive rail to rail and snappier in the smaller weaker
beach-breaks!
Converserly, moving the fins inwards towards the stringer by 1/8"
made the board feel like it had more drive and control off the bottom
turns, which was a benefit in bigger bowly waves with exactly the same
set of fins in the same position… almost feeling like u were riding a
1" longer board…
From obproud: The reason boards are less responsive when the fins are set closer to
the stringer is because there is too much lift created by the hull
outside of the fin countering the surfers weight shift, so it takes more
pressure (from the surfers weight shift) to overcome the lift.
From screwfoot: With quad rear fin placement I found placement closer to stringer
combined with double foiled fins to be very loose and responsive while
single foiled “edge” placement offered more hold and power.
From what I read there seems to be some difference in experience people are having some find closer to edge loose/responsive, further in more drive/hold, while others seem to be having the opposite experience… Ok, after re-reading there seems to be some agreement closer to rail increases responsiveness, but perhaps a loss of control… kinda too twitchy… Then there’s the thing with the water coming off the fin interacting with the bottom of the board… Maybe there’s something about the pivot of the fin playing a bigger part than the rail, when the fin is so close to the rail…
Hmmm could it be - all other things being the same, which perhapse Deano is best qualified to speak to - this is one of those things which may fall under “personal preference…” Kinda like how one may choose to measure their fin placement… 
T. the meds got the best of me. I run my quad shortboards with fins closer to edge, guns closer to stringer. The comment I made about boards being loose and responsive with fins closer to stringer was partly in error. I needed to figure out how to make that happen through fin size, shape and foil. I have an excellent 80's pipe board(thruster) where the side fins are set 3/4"off rail. Has a ton of V back there also. Get it wrong and it will track, not good in waves of consequence. Toe and cant.
Thanks for clarifying SF - 3/4" off the rail sounds radical - How long is the board, and how far up are the fins? So many variables… I’m a little confused, “excellent 80’s pipe board” (I’m guessing pipe line - a wave of consequence to be sure…), then you said “get it wrong and it will track, not good in waves of consequences” I’m guessing you are not talking about the board, but fin placement in general…
That’s my observation over a couple of boards. Make the rails thinner is one way of dealing with the fins more inboard (plus outline, rocker, etc etc).
PS when you rotate the fins in a 4wfs system you move the trailing edge outboard. If some one could explain how that complicates the fin inboard/outboard discussion, I’d appreciate it.
hi Red_boards,
yes, u are correct, as u rotate the fins inwards ( more toe-in), the trailing edge of the fin does move towards the rail.
This is a complimentary action as the idea behind toe-ing in is to increase turning ability, so by having the trailing edge move 1mm closer to the rail the board will respond quicker by complimenting the action of "toe-in".
Conversely, if u were to "toe-out" away from the stringer for a more "faster" more "stable" feel, the action of the trailing edge inwards towards the stringer provides the hold along with the speed.
hope this helps?
regards
Dean
Nice Dean -
Have I mentioned how well my board is going with all four boxes set with max toe/cant?
I’ll have to get detailed numbers for you, but the board is insane… “Skatey” snaps if I want, or drawn out carves, and speed to burn…
It just keeps getting better…
Thanks again -
as we would say here...."LEKKER!!!" ( nice ....) ;-)
Hmmmm, Dean - Are you saying “Lekker” means “nice?” Looks that way, but what do I know, I can’t even explain american english… Ha!
yup,
"lekker" in Afrikaans over here, means "nice"
cheers
Deano
Lekker - How do you pronounce it? Lee-ker, or Leh-ker, or Lay-ker…
It should come in handy when I make my pilgrimage to J-bay.
LOL....
actually like ...
"LACK - KER"
always goes down well here in Cape Town & J-Bay!
will b hitting J-Bay again over the Billabong Pro, great time of year for waves and weather is awesome too!
cheers
Deano
Lakker!
Thanks Dean,
Yes, my thinking was that there is a cumulative effect, so changes in toe come with changes in distance to rail. Fin toe in increases response, and fin trailing edge closer to rail also contributes to increased response. Probably explains why a 1/32" fin rotation can make such a difference to board performance.
As an OT aside, I rarely change my fin settings, but was grateful to be able to increase my toe-in when the surf dropped from 4’ to 1’ in the 4th day of the worlds. I was able to “fake” full rail turns to progress through the heat and then re-set my fins to surf 6-8’ Express Point a couple of days later.
TaylorO: try the more adventurous smaaklik (tasty) on your future trip. Aply in liberal doses to girls, waves, food and drink.