Firewire and Bert Burger Part Ways

i agree, thats why i think so many people like the firewires… becuase the actual shape is very ideal for most people. lots of everyday people are riding completly the wrong board for themselves.

Thanks Greg

As you know, It is all about the “feel good”. And the customer gets to choose what rings their bells.

Dave , i actually couldnt work out whether you were being serious or sarcastic ??

regards

BERT

www.sunovasurfboards.com

i was serious. the foil and rocker and the rest of the shapes i see coming for repairs or trade in of so many boards are really bad… the firewires i have seen have been very well thought out shapes. they would work very well in pu too, with a few minor adjustments to suit the material layup of course.!

so many crew are making thier own boards or getting them from a lessor experianced shaper, that the scenario i will portray now may make sense to you.

as a begginner shaper to get your own brand of boards out there you have to generate publicity (or hype) so if you have done a couple hundred shapes you will have done a bunch for your self a “team guy” and a few mates…

your boards for your team guy and your self are not to bad as you have refined them and your own surfing to suit them over a couple years. your mates are mates so they will be ok with whatever they get for a deal as most of them are honest enough to doubt thier ability before your shape…

know comes the hype… a couple mag adverts and a few visits to shops… all of a sudden your making lots of customs to suit all different people you have never seen or surfed with… how can you get the boards right for them in one go? the subtle placements of thickness, concaves and fins all need to be tuned to suit the surfer so you make your boards generic… this generally means great for someone like you but bad for 90% other good surfers but fine for everyday of the shelf surfers? not if they are progressing… they will find out more than you about thier surfing and your shape. that one shape that was ok for them when they purchased it is now a piece of crap…

they see the next hyped up shaper or technology in thier surf mag (probably edited by a paid or pro new tech jorno) they spend the money and viola if its a surftech or firewire or a top level pu brand or even a local good custom shaper with lots of thought or experiance put in, its better than your shape now…

maybe thats cleared up what i mean Bert…

Funny how the firewire boards are now pushing how important the shape is and staying away from the technology that made them what they are.

They don’t have the background in the technology, so they have to “sell” what they can… a shaper?

I predict this will continue until the boards start falling apart then it will be Bert’s fault even though he’s not there anymore.

Only 2 people really have an intimate knowledge of compsand boards. Both got involved with big business and interestingly both are no longer invloved with the big business company’s anymore.

It’s going to be interesting to see how long my brother’s firewire lasts. After a couple of weeks one of the fcs plugs started coming out.

shark country …

that hurts my feelings …

i had a customer order a board 2 days back , my first money in the hand back in the real world under the Sunova label …

he was also one of the last people to get a board from me 18 months back …

he is huge , 6’-8" and 270lb …

when i asked how his fcs held up , he said the best of any board ever , his friend with him acknowledged this to …

because he is so big , he kills or has killed every fin system , not due to the actual system , but due to the way they are installed and what there installed into …

with proper re-inforcing all the fin systems are more than adequate …

case in point … Munga about a year back ran over a longboard , fcs snapped clean out at the base leaving both tabs in the holes , no damage to plugs at all …

this is how its supposed to be ,i can only hope your brothers board was a one off and an inocent mistake was made …

yea interesting story with Randy …

he pretty much runs his own business now , and does it very well …

humble beginings …

until recently , i never realised how hands on Randy was , definitley knows his stuff …

regards

BERT

www.sunovasurfboards.com

yep

fcs work well in sandwich boards

the fins seem to snap at the tabs

ive had two snap at the tabs

my only gripe is the wall thickness of the plug

if they made it a 1mm thicker it would be a huge difference

the plugs strength is improved by the resin around it

ive had 1 failure and sabs had a couple of failures with the new plugs

mine was a re-entry on to shingle

i guess i treat my boards pretty bad though

Hi Bert,

Unfortunately, my brother’s firewire fish had to be fixed. I don’t know how it was damaged because he let a friend up on the north shore use it. It looks like it may have hit something because there’s also a little indentation where the back of the fin would be. The rear plug was pulled up a little and away from the lamination.

I certainly wish you the best of luck with Sunova. Once you get back up to speed, we’ll probably want to get one of your boards. Just to have one the real boards. I think the last time Bernie asked there was an 8 month wait, but that was when you were just begining with the firewire thing.

Aloha, Harry

Quote:

my only gripe is the wall thickness of the plug

if they made it a 1mm thicker it would be a huge difference

the plugs strength is improved by the resin around it

I totally agree. It’s just plain stupid to have next to nothing worth of material at the end of the holes. What I’ve done a couple of times is wet out a small piece of fiberglass and wrap it tight around the plug. Don’t know how much difference it does.

Quote:
Hi Bert,

Unfortunately, my brother’s firewire fish had to be fixed. I don’t know how it was damaged because he let a friend up on the north shore use it. It looks like it may have hit something because there’s also a little indentation where the back of the fin would be. The rear plug was pulled up a little and away from the lamination.

SNIP

Aloha, Harry

Aloha Harry and Bernie…

If that was from my test rides please bring it back and I will fix it. I didn’t hit anything that I was aware of and I think it was fine when it left here but stuff happens and I would be happy to correct it.

don’t worry bill it happened later when the new fins were put on.

I might bring it up though anyway

since your an authorized Firewire dealer rep now…

I don’t feel comfortable fixing something this high tech and expensive.

Once we took a favorite Linden “Recycler” back to the Linden shop to get a wood glass-on fin replaced that popped off but the board was never the same again. Loved those boards though back then wish I bought and rode alot more of then in the early 90’s…

If anybody can fix this though it’s probably you and maybe a handful of other EPS/Epoxy guys…

Thanks much for the kind offer…

Quote:

yep

fcs work well in sandwich boards

the fins seem to snap at the tabs

ive had two snap at the tabs

my only gripe is the wall thickness of the plug

if they made it a 1mm thicker it would be a huge difference

the plugs strength is improved by the resin around it

ive had 1 failure and sabs had a couple of failures with the new plugs

mine was a re-entry on to shingle

i guess i treat my boards pretty bad though

silly,

Your’e right about the new fcs plugs, bad design intoducing PC with that wall thickness. But they don’t give a sh#t as they never reply to any post on Sways, they just LUUUUURK in their ivory tower. Go another new thread on that one ! See if you can flush them out, Kokua did once but got shutdown with bullshit and Bert got sidetacked from a post he did about their fins.

Back to the real thread, any fin system should perform in any method of construction. Bert seemed to choose fcs so maybe he can tell us why, or is that all locked up in some corporate deal with “the big time investors” behind both fcs and fierwire ?

[=Blue]I will be looking for your visit. If I am not around, just leave the board and I will check it out and give you a call regarding the possible outcomes.

You could also demo out another FireWire while you are up here!

Quote:
Quote:

Bert seemed to choose fcs so maybe he can tell us why, or is that all locked up in some corporate deal with “the big time investors” behind both fcs and fierwire ?

FCS is an Australian company…FCS controls most of the market share.

hey rocklobster

im having issues with fcs to be honest

holding the phone on it for a while though

its all good rock lobster , no conspiricy …

prior to running FCS i was always a set fin man , because all the current fin systems lock the tail of the board up and work against flex …

but in the process of development we could actually install FCS plugs without tieing them to the deck , thus still allowing flex , this would also be possible with some of the other systems as well, but because FCS are fixed at 2 points and the plugs are independant , it means that even the plugs themselves are free to flex and move independantly , where as some of the other fin systems still create a rigid foot print …

this then also meant that FCS now provided more flex in the tail than even a set fin …

so for the style of construction i do it ended up being the perfect system for the job …

FCS however , still have a number of limitations which if i was doing my own boards or some customs , had no way of solving , then just as i am going out on my own , up comes up a company who have solved the issues i was having …

i have actually just commited to a different system based on the same concept as FCS but with a few of the FCS issues done away with …

Raptor …

it installs with the fcs installation kit , and has 2 plugs with a thicker wall , so a little more robust …

you can buy the plugs individually without paying a penalty …

they will custom make fins for you and even mold fins if your willing to share some costs …

they will except FCS fins …

they will allow lengthways flex in the board like FCS , but because of the way the fins are held in with greater tension on tabs , all the feedback i have heard says they feel as solid as set fins …

so the concept of just plugs , and not being stuck with a set of fins im never gonna use , sold me …

being able to either custom make my own fins or have them do it for me sold me to …

i think with the same simple install method that has kept FCS in front , but combined with some solid service and a willingness to work with all board builders , i think there on a winner …

regards

BERT

www.sunovasurfboards.com

sounds great

how much for a set of plugs only?

cant find anything on the website

Firewire factory in the Gold Coast paper here today , seems a lot of soil was pushed up against an adjoining wall of the Factory by the developer next door, causing the walls to crack and workers to be " evacuated"

A sceptic might say it sounds like they are preparing to leave for Asia after this lovely excuse presents itself.

Aloha Mr. B

just a couple of pitch hints from

what I’m usually facing across the table

when asking for funding

and these are mostly for internal projects to grow the company who’s providing the funding.

start with a financial business case and a detailed statement of work of the pitch

nothing less than a 15% ROI gets reviewed

nothing greater than a 3 year payback even gets reviewed unless it’s a major capitalization

anything with a ROI payback in less than a year get priority

cost of funds and impact of inflation are not favorable longterm projections now especially for anything in the small business range i,e, 5 million to 25 million in assets.

as you look at unit sales for revenue decrease your projections by 50%

experience and long term viability should be easily understood by the lowest denominator

whether you want to accept it or not, anything involving large scale manufacturing, you’ll need to factor in and address the impact of china (or any outsourcing in general). Because if it’s gonna move there eventually they’ll want to go their first instead of converting later. So you’ll need to explain why it won’t happen or when it would.

Most of the investible equity today is in hedges and there’s a wide variety of those available today big and small but none of it is small time stuff. The best opportunity in going international is in getting developmental grants where immediate profit is not the priime driver of the investment. The best people you can get on your team are highly skilled grant writers who can pull funding out of thin air like you wouldn’t believe.It’s a ggod way to start or to acquire seed capital.

Going green is the current pop play so find a way to grab more carbon credits in what you’re doing versus the competition. We’re all jumping on that band wagon whether its true or not. I see it a viable marketing play versus tech/performance in the next 2-5 years gaining in the next couple. Just watch as it’s starting to stink up the media and everyone is going to want a piece of the action. In the next year I will be soon explaining why giving your hard earned money to me is greener than doing something else with it whether that a completely true or not.

The ugly part of about this segment is that most surfers are inherently cheap the big fish are far and few and you can’t survive unless you intend to be a small focused niche from that segment.

if you can find a way to market to that specific mentality/weakness you may be able to take advantage of it.

learn and watch from other industries to capitalize on your industry’s weakness

sounds crazy but if you can plan and fund the ability to survive a year

consisting of taking in trade-ins for high priced units, leasing options with trade up options to newer models and unloading the older models as rentals to shops.

put your client on direct debit programs to support payment over time

and support an awards program in alignment with some card issuer looking for a new avenue into this segment

also if you can deliver a complete package service wise like board storage and maintenance (I see this happening now)

another soon to appear is a service for global access to the product at any of the major surfspots for a fee for the traveling surfer. Just pay a weekly, monthly or annual fee and be able to use a model of your choice based on reservations not unlike renting a car or travel club or mobile when traveling internationally.

you’ll create a new genre and spook the industry into the 21st century.

I’d consider this is the next step beyond Surftech

Sorry if this all sounds sick

just addressing it from a product perspective like we would any other product initiative we’d have to pitch.

hope it helps in someway

in my world it’s the classic 80/20 rule where 20% of your clients create 80% of your profitability.

You still need the other 80 but you have to protect the 20% as if your life depended upon it because it does. Unfortunately I don’t think this exists in your industry as the value proposition of the product was defined many decades ago under different circumstances and it’d take just as long to reverse that but things have been going in the opposite direction with the introduction of outsourcing…

So the value needs to come from somewhere else not from the product itself…

image, then convenience, then performance, then environment

sorry

Are you the sceptic or do you actually know something?