Firewire and Bert Burger Part Ways

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Talk the talk, but I ride a Firewire and they surf exceptionally well. It is also holding up extremely well. Regardless of whether Firewire the company succeeds, the technology, even in the watered down commercial form, is an advancement. It validates epoxy. It validates parabolic rails. It validates composite construction. It also validates that these types of boards can be built custom or in mass.

It’s seems that most of the “local shapers” we are all supposed to “support” are just slipping back into their old habits. And consumers are still buying into the new board every six month scam. They are only content because they are ignorant of other options. These people have two boards in there quiver. They are basically the same boards, one is just on it’s last leg. There is no surf spot in the world that is perfect year round for one board. Wave pools would be a clever retort, so stuff it.

Bert was right if your boards last longer and still maintain their performance characteristics you can buy other boards to round out your surfing experience. This was his revenue model. It had the consumers best interest at heart.

We need more Bert Burgers in our local board building communities. My money is going to the board builders who think like Bert. Give us better performing, longer lasting surfboards.

Is this meangreen or monkey shines? You guys have a very similar writing style. Watered down commerical form? At least that sounds about right. It validates nothing. Talk to me in ten years and then we will see. Sell it all you want, just like Firewire is selling it, but poly has 50 years behind it of fairly consistent performance and nothing has knocked it off yet. In fact…I would say it’s a poly world, not an epoxy world, popout world or parabolic rail world. Claims claims and more claims. If you guys like that stuff …great. More power to ya. Why cut on local shapers by saying Local shapers we are “supposed” to support. Shapers create the stuff big corporations copy or rip. Not the other way around. In fact didn’t Firewire…go to one of those “local” shapers we are “supposed” to support for help?

Also…what does “slipping” “back” into their old habits mean? No local shaper I know buys into the new board every six month scam. Most of the ones I know “personally” believe boards should be built right and to last. The Herd does like to buy into that scam because the magazines and corpo board labels (with light glass job waifers) sell them on the latest greatest. Kind of the same way Firewire is now doing. Familiar ring to it. Oh yeah and everyone is ignorant that does not buy into the latest and greatest. They couldn’t possibly stay on poly if they would just give Firewire or any other “new” tech a try. I am open…but Have not seen anything from Firewire other than a pretty package yet.

I have poly boards that are ten years old, five years old, and they ride just fine. The shapes are timeless. I also own some beautful handshaped epoxy boards that ride unreal that I have had awhile. The problem with the things like Firewire and the host of popouts is the poly stuff has been around and will likely remain for time to come. The shapers don’t let go of it because like many of us…they have seen all the hyped up stuff come and go and yet poly still remains. When some new tech comes out that replaces poly like foam replaced wood…then most all of us will likely switch. Until then…many of us will try some of the stuff we like, keep an open mind, but enjoy what we know works as well.

So is your money going to Bert, another local shaper like Bert or to Firewire? Boardbuilders can be a really vague term now days. Again…not a personal attack, but just exchanging ideas.

Hey burt at least you got to dump your shares, Im sure everyone else in that company wishes they could. or are they all in the process.

                                                       natas

Dude your paranoid.

add a noid

one noid plus one noid is

a pair of noids.

when left to their own devices

these noids can and will reproduce additional noids

three noids four noids

trionoids

quartetnoids

and the immortal sigmund freud and his quintetonoids.

discecting an argument to determine the intent of said arguement is the

shortcut to debaters bias denial.

as in methinx the woman protesteth too much

as in will shakesspere and the philharmonic orchestranoids.

I for one have been encouraged to learn and persue epoxy apps

not by testimonializations but by solid presentation of data and anaylitica

when personal I love it better and I will never kiss another surfboard ever

is archie veronica bullburp

that often smells like familiar fecum.

Velzy slung the best sales pitches ever

if we the well trained aging dinosaurs

learned to smell sales pitch dung

at the feet of the masters

nay sa I that a mere mean green

‘’ you gotta be nuts if’n you don’ believe ME?‘’

is not quite enough.

try harder lad.

…ambrose…

gotta go some more before you douse the cool new us blanx catalogue…

its on fire…warm your hands

the evolution of the surfboard is not one dementional.

counting out poly urethane is premature at least.

may we assume glassing with epoxy

will be puep?

or puoxy

pufgepoxy

pull my wire but dont set it on fire

I may think yall have given me the clap.

I,after inspecting mean greens profile ,

I have determined

the illigitimate son of

Mr. green Jeans of Captain Kangaroo show

has surfaced to redirect the fate of the

surfing paranoids.

thank god for concerned in high places.

he lives in san pedro has 5 children and is a good father.

paddles extensivly with the canoe club

and is an active member of green peace and the

los angeles dodgers boosters.

whadda ya mean annaomyus

this guy is a stand up guy.

thanks Phil.

real name Phil Updykes

formerly of san bernadino

…ambrose.

Lots of meaning in that statement epac…

On another note…interesting that Taj is now back on PU’s…maybe the performance characteristics are better than a FW’s - perish the thought!

(I’m not knocking Bert’s boards here…I respect his integrity - but the statement must be made that if Taj chooses to ride PU - then there must be a reason…and I suspect it’s to do with performance…)

im positive the balsas are better then the foam ones

same density and thickness but the balsa has way more TWANG along the grain then foam

the more firewires become generic and popoutey

the more there performance characteristics will suffer imo

a balsa springer is a poor substitute for a whole balsa skinned board

balsa are harder to make

not as durable(foam is waterproof and better compressive strength)

lighter

and twangier

my opinion is based on my limted building experience however

at the end of the day firewire are just another mass produced board (albiet in aus and US rather the asia)

and is so remote from what swaylocked backyard artists are wanging out on

there future is not our future

or Berts

we will be stoking out on some remote surf break and

stoking in garages and parkinlots about how the this setup effects that and blah blah

production line factory workers dont get much stoke imo

backyarders rule forever

i like my backyard kiwi farm version better

the name is underground and based on the fences we cut our nuts on to find the best breaks

not pretty but goes like the clappers (like who cares what your riding if its 4 ft peeling with no one out)

i dub thee

barbedwire

Silly brings up a great point.

The last Firewires I saw had almost no wood in the rails, just a cosmetic strip there…proly to trick customers into thinking there’s something tangible there.

The new FWs are WAY WAY nutered down versions of SONOVA. Its just foam on top of foam. That sliver of wood in the rails is just cosmetic.

ISNT IT INTERESTING…THIS NEWBIE MEANGREEN SHOWS UP HERE PROMOTING HIS OWN PRODUCT.

Strange people over there.

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Lots of meaning in that statement epac…

On another note…interesting that Taj is now back on PU’s…maybe the performance characteristics are better than a FW’s - perish the thought!

(I’m not knocking Bert’s boards here…I respect his integrity - but the statement must be made that if Taj chooses to ride PU - then there must be a reason…and I suspect it’s to do with performance…)

I doubt Firewires at this point resemble Bert’s personal creations. like Surftech Mccoys…I bet they ride nothing alike.

“I doubt Firewires at this point resemble Bert’s personal creations. like Surftech Mccoys…I bet they ride nothing alike”

Probably right…surftech McCoys ride better and last longer and the resale is superb compared to the pupe version.

I think that thin woody thing on the rails is something you v baggers call VENEERWICHCOMP.

Did silly move his glassing room to the pantry as noted on his last creation? I guess that is the opposite end of production manufacturing.

Don’t worry meangreen, post with signs of mental illness seems to run rampant with v baggers and brokers of surfboards here. Welcome to the site and your fw product comments have pretty much been in line with all the other posts from those who ride them. I guess now the brains behind the product is out it’s alright to slam the product for the peanut gallery.

300 units per week coming to the west coast from AUS. The real impression of the boards will be known in the next year. All the nay sayers seem to not actually own one but have expert commentary on all the faults of the manufacturing and materials used.

Enjoy your boards and I am glad you are stoked on them MG. Write back with updates once they have been broken in.

I don’t think you are mark price, maybe just his assistant who gets free boards. Lucky!!

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“I doubt Firewires at this point resemble Bert’s personal creations. like Surftech Mccoys…I bet they ride nothing alike”

Probably right…surftech McCoys ride better and last longer and the resale is superb compared to the pupe version. Really? How many Mccoys have you ridden Otay? Mccoy himself does not like the way his Surftech models ride. Go to his site and see the warning he give about the differnce of ride and expectations of his customers that have been riding Poly. I can tell you as someone who rides Mccoys that the popout versions do not have the drive of the poly versions. I admit it could be personal taste, but for you to say better if you have not ridden one…well…you know. No actually…resale is not better. How many boards used have you retailed of the last 30 years?

I think that thin woody thing on the rails is something you v baggers call VENEERWICHCOMP.

Did silly move his glassing room to the pantry as noted on his last creation? I guess that is the opposite end of production manufacturing. Huh?

Don’t worry meangreen, post with signs of mental illness seems to run rampant with v baggers and brokers of surfboards here. Actually signs of mental illness just showed up to post the above comments. Don’t know what you mean by brokers. I own what I sell. I no longer broker anything without a label I control. I can be sure of consistent quality that way and no hype. Everything is explained up front and I stand behind my stuff better than the corpos you seem to love so much. Ask any one of my customers if you doubt it. There are a few that post here. Welcome to the site and your fw product comments have pretty much been in line with all the other posts from those who ride them. I guess now the brains behind the product is out it’s alright to slam the product for the peanut gallery. Go back to Firewire sets the record straight thread and you will see my comments remain consistent and I in fact predicted this would happen. I am wish I was not correct frankly because from what I know of Bert is he is a stand up guy who trusted the wrong people and sucked in by a great sales job and lots of promises. Thats how the big corpo end of our industry works.

300 units per week coming to the west coast from AUS. The real impression of the boards will be known in the next year. All the nay sayers seem to not actually own one but have expert commentary on all the faults of the manufacturing and materials used. I for one have no issue with the manufacturing. Simply let the hype subside and see how the thing are in a few years before coming on a forum and stating that PU is out and shapers have “fallen” back into their old habits as if they have taken a step backwards for daring not to buy into the hype. What most realize is that “today” as things stand…it’s still a poly world. Not firewire…not surftech…not epoxy. I am not saying that will always be the way, but thats the way it is “today”. I …like many like new tech if it lives up to promises, but I sure aint buying no corpo sales pitch nor supporting them when they show their true colors. This industry was never designed to make people rich…it used to be about lifestyle. I realize thats long gone and can accept it…but I can still rage against the dying of the light…ha ha.

Enjoy your boards and I am glad you are stoked on them MG. Write back with updates once they have been broken in.

I don’t think you are mark price, maybe just his assistant who gets free boards. Lucky!! Ha Ha…you may be right here. Mark has not come on to set the record straight yet.

Otay …You got a FW?..

I’ve never ridden one personally - altho have vacuumed a few balsa compsands…so I can’t comment on their performance…what is interesting is that Taj has - and he seems to prefer PU…wonder why?

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On another note…interesting that Taj is now back on PU’s…maybe the performance characteristics are better than a FW’s - perish the thought!

errgh…arrgh…ahem…Don’t pros by definition ride for money?

Nothing against them- if they aren’t sponsored they won’t be going on all those trips to the ends of the earth with the best waves and really won’t be able to maintain their world-class cutting edge abilities. I mean that in all seriousness. That seems to be where it’s at, so to speak, and what they have to do. But doesn’t that blow their equipment endorsement credibility to some degree?

Whatever you predicted came true???

I think Mr Burger would have to make the call on that one.

Are you really Mr. Burger??? Oh, that’s your line, sorry.

I have had enough plate lunches since last October to be able to plant the rail of a surftech McCoy nugget. Would I ride one? Why bother on the N.S. of Oahu. Maybe on the Texas gulf coast.

I haven’t read the warning on any website regarding the ride expectations but I am glad they are there because I would imagine it would be above and beyone any expectation I might have on that model.

I wonder what fin box system the Sunova will be running now with all the “good vibes” with the FCS system on the FW?

I think most shapers have fallen back to old habits because of the huge access of PU blanks now. Luckily though the huge influx of eps or other non pu foam in the past year has got the customers pulling the wagon more so now than ever before. PU foam might be back but those who experienced EPS perfection won’t go back.

Why retail boards when you can wholesale them?? It’s o.k. being the middle man, you make my surfboard world go round!!!

I have never seen a fw in person.

My life is great now so a fw board will not bring about happiness.

It’s a sad commentary seeing all these board addicts and me in part enabling thier search for happiness in all the wrong places.

Just say no to surfboards!!

sell them all excpet two and be content.

Hi Epac!

I think I just got your pic. It’s awesome.

-Rio

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ROFL!!

Someone actually has a car that’s more a mess than mine…

PS. don’t leave that car unattended with the skil in plain sight… LOL!!

but erhmm… seriously guys, has anyone heard from bert, How is he?

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I have never seen a fw in person.

My life is great now so a fw board will not bring about happiness.

It’s a sad commentary seeing all these board addicts and me in part enabling thier search for happiness in all the wrong places.

Just say no to surfboards!!

sell them all excpet two and be content.

Hey…I am in total agreement. See we do see eye to eye on a few things. Ha Ha

Its hard to respond to this thread without coming across as a blinded-by-science composite lover, but I’m going to try. First off - I’ve never liked firewire. I would be willing to bet that the guys stuck it to Bert because they thought their products was “good enough”. If this is true then I think they’ve made a big mistake. The thing is, until you go custom composite (which firewire is far away from) you just have a strong board. I agree with what Paul said about the importance of materials and I don’t agree with picking something because its good enough and easy (which I think corecell is). However, going composite is not guarantee of a good board. Some of my best looking compsand boards have been the biggest p.o.s. I think that materials and techniques matter a thousand times more on a composite board than the do with traditional boards. In regards to Taj, I think his experience makes the transition to compsands more difficult. The pro surfers are amazing athletes and their moves are finally tuned to the boards they surf. Compsands introduce performance characteristics that they aren’t use to. Additionally, new polys aren’t that bad. Their problems are durability related, and this happens when you go super lite. I doubt Taj has much problems getting new boards.

In regards to Bert posting here - in the short term I bet it would be very difficult to do. If firewire is like most giant corporations I bet they forced him to sign a no talk clause if he wanted his severance package and he has his family to think about.