I have had my firewire for 1 year now.I was cleaning it so I could get ready for an upcoming swell and i heard a strange noise when i was removing the wax from the area where my front foot goes.It sounded like a crunching noise.So I pushed down on that area and sure enough it was delaming.I wasn’t sure if the high density came off the eps or if the glass come off the high density foam because the foam is painted.So I checked the back foot area also and it had the same sound but just on the toe side.There are no creases on the board.I have really surfed this board really though so if it only lasted me a year than that is fine.If I were still riding poly this would have been my 4th board this year.I am still bummed though cause I really liked that board.Oh yeah when I flex the board by putting the nose on the ground face up and holding the tail in the air and pressing down I can see the glassbuckling but not cracking.I know wonder if this would cause the board to be overly flexy and that was my only complaint sometimes.Give some feedback design gurus!LATER KARL
Yes - any significant delam will result in increased flex. From the sound of things, get it fixed or prepare for eventual buckle and catastrophic results.
I’m not trying to pick on Firewire, just wondering… have you noticed any moisture intrusion through vent membrane?
I’m more than curious about the reliablity of the breather vents on Firewires. The label on the boards say that it is a Gore-Tex membrane, but it doesn’t look like a standard Gore housing. If anyone has some photos of the breather removed I would appreciate seeing these. It seems to me that unless the board has seen some extreme and rapid heating, delamination from water intrusion is more likely. Surfercross, you may want to unscrew the vent and see if there’s any water inside, unless you have obvious open dings on the board.
Hi Pete -
After doing a bit of research and experimentation myself with the Gore vents, I was intrigued with the report (from a salesman no less) that his firewire demo was possibly taking on water through the vent.
IMO the jury is still out on durability and longevity of the Gore membrane vents.
See post under “Daz’s New Toy” thread.
Thanks for the info John. I was very careful not to make some homebrew vent design because real engineering testing would be expensive and take a long time. I have worked with WL Gore in the past, and have toured their R&D and production facilities. I first saw these vents back then, and they were used in military applications which have very high reliability requirements. These aren’t new products, and have been field-proven in harsh enviroments for a long time now. I feel that if you use the Gore housings designed for their membranes, they won’t leak. The Firewire vents I have seen appear to not be an intergrated design from Gore. The only metal housing vent Gore makes looks nothing like what’s on the Firewire, it looks just like the plastic ones except it is metal and costs about 3x more. If anyone wants to know more about the Gore vents and their reliability, go to www.gore.com/protectivevents. The one I use is POV/M12x1.
I’m wondering what foam they are using for their skins. I checked out an FW is a store recently and was kind of shocked to feel how heavy it was. I couldn’t figure out how they got it so heavy - My core-cell skinned boards come out much lighter even with me using a lot of glass and sealing coats. It occurred to me they might not be using core-cell but something heavier (and weaker) There are HD polyurethane foams on the market. I’m wondering if they’ve switched to a HD PU foam for the skins. This would explain the extra weight and the de-lamming. The PU foam would be more likely to fail in shear after it became fatigued, if it failed in shear it would feel like a delam except the foam would still appear to be attached to the exterior glass. Does that sound like your board Karl?
I’m no expert, but I would rather think the delam is the EPS beads separating under the skin. Hard to judge if it’s just the glass or the core to that’s buckling away when flexing. Only one way to find out…
regards,
Håvard
I was looking at the new firewires and there constuction looks different the foam doesn’t look painted like mine.All I know that is when I press on the delam areas it makes a crunchy sound.I am not sure if I am going to have it fixed or just get a new board.Do you think that this is a result from just normal wear?
I’ve seen another FW delam just like you’re describing with the crunchy sound and everything. Another got overheated and the gore membrane began to fail. He would notice water draining from the vent for a few days after surfing. The delam was a board that was really beaten on for almost a year. Like you said, that still beats the average life expectancy for an off-the-rack pupe.
Yeah could be that, but EPS wouldn’t make a crunchy sound - unless resin has soaked into it.
Delam after a year of heavy use? Snapped board in four foot OBSF? Leaky valves and boxes? How much do these boards retail? The next hollow W.A.V.E I predict. Mike
the ones i was seeing in shops were about 100 more than a traditional PUPE. but the templates were all really standard, no concave decks or super thin boards.
the ones i was seeing in shops were about 100 more than a traditional PUPE.
If as surfercross say, he’d go through 4 PU/PE boards in the time he’s spent killing a firewire, it seems like $100 well spent and certainly good value for money if the board is of equal performance as a pu/pe.
Sounds like he got ripped off…
I definately didn’t get ripped off the board will still be surfable thats the great thing about the perimeter stringer.I have put that board through alot in a year.Lots of airs and chop hops.When I bought it I knew it wasn’t indestructable!I wish it would have lasted longer but thats how it goes.I just wish I could have gotten my sunova it would have been perfect timing.We are supposed to be getting waves this week in florida and I am going to try and break it!
i wouldnt break it
its an easy fix man
the board will be as good as new performance wize if a little ugly
go to the board ladys site
you just peel of the skin where the delam is and let dry out
and put in some pour foam to fill any holes
then stick a patch of balsa or dcell
then glass
its easy
wont add weight
you prolly get another year or three
meecrafty might help you out
he could do it easily (is he in your area)
if you keep surfing it
it will get worse
the delam is possibly from water
but as harvaard said, most likely compression damage and the eps beads are separated from the skin
could be a dry spot on the inner glass
No water intrsion I took the vent out and put it in te sun to see.Just wear and tear I think because it has it in the tail area to even though I do have a tail pad back there.I might fix it but it would be fun to break it to I know that sounds stupid and it is.It gives me an excuse to buy a new one and I will be able to see how strong they really are when under the worst possible conditions
Only 100 dollars more than a pupe? That’s a good deal then I guess. I thought they retailed for 8-900 dollars US. My PuPe’s always last longer than a year. Even when I was not building my own. Of course, I had them built strong and the only airs I do is when I get sent over the falls. I try not to hit my board when that happens. Still, leaking vents and plugs? That seems like poor quality control. Pupe’s are much easier to repair it seems as well. The Sunova’s look impecable. If you are going to spend the extra money, might as well get it from the Man. I still thing Firewire will go the way of the T Rex. Not the technology. Mike
...the only airs I do is when I get sent over the falls. I try not to hit my board when that happens.... Mike
Dude, you can’t stick that? Dude, major air. Word. Try harder, bro.
Hi Pete -
I checked the Gore site again and agree that the vents they manufacture appear to be up to snuff based on the specs although I’m not sure what kind of pressures result from breaking waves. If a Gore Tex membrane is held against a faucet with a flow of tap water, at what pressure will it start to leak? It WILL leak at some point, I guarantee it.
Waterproofness of rain and snow gear is often rated at mm of H2O. A fabric sealed column is filled with water and the column of water is measured in height when it starts leaking. A concern of mine is that Gore Tex snow gear and camping gear seems to be most effective when new. After some abrasion, dirt or whatever, the outer DWR coating eventually wears and seemingly compromises the laminate’s waterproofness.
I read on the Gore site that the membranes are impervious to salt crystals which addresses a complaint I had heard related to Gore Tex dry gear as used in kayaking. The rumor was that after multiple exposures and increased wear, the fabric became saturated with salt water. As it dried, salt crystals formed and spread the fabric weave apart allowing future water intrusion. A recent post on a different site (see link below) addresses these concerns and from what I can tell, the results are inconclusive.
I am aware that it is a contested issue and that I am not privy to the electron microscopy of the fabric pores or anything cool like that.
The surfshop salesman described a leak at the vent and for all I know it was around the plug rather than through the membrane.