I’ve made a mistake. I was about to do the hotcoat on the deck this weekend, and I wanted to clean the it because of the discussion I saw on Fisheyes. I did not have Denaturated alcohol to clean the board and the shop near my house didn’t have some. So I decided I had not the time to go to the other shop that I know they have some. It was too far. My friend that have done his first board last year didn’t have fisheye problems and didn’t wash his board with denaturated alcohol before hotcoat.
Results: I have hundreds of fisheyes on the deck, it is really ugly.
My two questions:
Do I have to sand my deck to level it … with like an orbital sander ? Or there is another trick I don’t know that could be easier and save time ?
Next time I try my hotcoat, does Denaturated alcohol on the board is enough to avoid that problem ?
Don’t clean with anything but a new dry cloth or a dry brush. Painter’s rags are cheap and easy to get at any paint store. No DNA, no tack rags, no compressed air, no zylene, no nothing.
Hot coat as soon as you can. Time is your enemy, as more time is more chance of something to land on it.
Use surfacing agent if Fiberglass Hawaii. Additive F if Resin Research. The thinner the hot coat, less chance of fish eyes. That doesn’t mean to thin the epoxy, it means to lay out a thinner coat. Spread it out with a squeege before you brush it out. Lengthwise, then across the board, then lengthwise again.
Sand lightly until you get rid of the brush marks, or just lightly touch the weave, which ever comes first. Then do your second hot/ finish coat. If you can use gloss resin, that goes way smoother, but if not, another coat of epoxy. Sand lightly just to get rid of the brush marks. Nothing coarser than 150 grit.
I cleaned the board with soap and water before hotcoat, and rinse it. So I don’t understand why it failed. I’m afraid it would do this again if I try to repair it.
I will try to sand it until it seems all level with no “holes” (fisheye). à
After I will clean it with painter’s rag and water ? Because I don’t understand how juste rags could clean the board of dust etc…
After I will hotcoat with thinner layer of epoxy, starting with squeegee instead of a brush.
If anyone has a suggestion please post it ! I’m really afraid to have this issue when trying to do it again.
I just wanted to be sure that only a rag was enough. That is why I put a question mark after my sentence, I wasn’t sure if it will be ok to add water.
For the first sentence, maybe it is not written correctly (because i’m french), but I was saying what I’ve done before, not what I will do. What I understand now, is that soap and water was probably my cause to fisheye.
Thanks a lot “everysurfer”, I will follow your advice
You should never have to prep (wash) a lam coat for fish eyes? The only sanding on a lam coat is around the laps.
If you washed a lam coat with soap and water you could have contaminated it waith all sorts of stuff..........mainly water in the foam. A lam coat is not watertight....a hot coat is not water tight. But a lam/hot/gloss coat is water tight.
The more you mess (touch, wash, rub) with a lam coat, the more likely it will get deseases in the hotcoat. If a lam coat done properly you shouldn't be able to get fish eyes...there's too much weave nub exposed to let fish eyes happen
To answer your question: Yes..Just sand the hot coat as usual. Realistically you are supposed to sand the hot coat to the very top of the glass weave. Remember a hot coat is just supposed to fill the little voids in the weave. Hot coat is not a structural part of the surfboard. So sand those little guys out. it will give you something to do.
And next time, don't rub your board down with your moms Jergens lotion loaded bath towel...Or a rag from the rag bag that has been used for years of service dipped in Lemon Pledge.
I’m using Miapoxy, the only thing I could found in Montreal (Quebec, Canada). I know 2-3 friends that have done board with it and had success.
P.S.
I used soap and water because someone suggested me that to remove some stains on the board. I had stains from my glassing stand pressing on the journal paper that covers the board when cutlapping. I will never do that again lol !
You already received some good advice, but I can add a little more confusion to the mix..
With Epoxy it is good to hotcoat as soon as possible after laminating. This gives a "Chemical" bond as the lam has not had time to cure out yet.
I have a few points that may help.
1. Touch the board as little as possible and use exam gloves(powderless) or paper towels when handling.
2. Only clean after sanding laps...The lam has potential to have air holes in the weave due to gassing or dry weave. NEVER use water and soap on the lam! You will never get the surfactant from the soap out of the weave..That was more than likely your problem.
3. I never use a cloth towel for anthing! It could have any number of contaminants on it! As someone said, fabric softener from the dryer will be the death of yet another hot coat!
Use only fresh clean PAPER towels if you have to wipe it down.
In place of DNA you can use everclear drinking alchohol, vodka 151 or isopropyl.
Be aware there is water in these so use sparingly. Wipe quickly then use a clean dry paintbrush to brush any lint or dust off..
The alcohol MUST be evaporated and the surface dry before you put on the hot coat...
4. A million fish eyes means you have a major contaminant...a few fisheyes means you missed a spot. A trick ..if you get a few small fish eyes...rub them with your gloved fingertip when wet and drop a drop of resin onto the spot...Better to have a bump of resin to sand away than dry weave to have to recoat..
A friend of mine just recently had the same problem..when I questioned him ..he had been using the same towel to wipe the last 3 boards with DNA...Switched to paper towels and his problem was solved..
I suggest scratching the surface of the lam with 80 grit on a soft block. DO NOT SAND, just a few light passes over the entire lam. Also, once the board is laminated, never touch it again with bare hands until after the hotcoat is done. Gloved hands only.
I used brand new clean Paint Rags. So the problem is sure to be the Soap and water not completely rinsed, that have gotten into the weave of the lam coat.
I will sand this disaster hotcoat on thursday and redo an hotcoat attempt after that.
Yes , soap and water is a problem . What is Journel paper? If that is news paper that is also a no no. For masking use masking paper from a paint store.
Yes, I made a mistake lol. It newspaper not Journal paper !
It is surprinsing that the soap and water did that much dammage everywhere on the deck because I did not put soap everywhere and wash over all the board surface. I did wash some place on the nose and tail and on the rails etc… But fisheyes is all over the deck !
I hope it’s not something else that will fail again on next attempt.
The soap and water thing is just part of your problem. I think it's the sum of the total of every thing combined to make the perfect storm of fish eyes. it could have been because you had your lunch all over your grubby hands smeared them all over the place. Just remember these 2 or 3 things things and you'll be golden from here on out with epoxy or poly...also we never talked about other possible sources of fish eyes here? Was this in a garage where other people store things like bug spray, weed killer, any kind of sprays including oil based spray paint?...I digress. My 2 things
1) a freshly sanded surface is the most pure clean surface you can get. Only use a degreaser if something has contanimated the surface...like wax, paint, oil, grease. But after degreasing sand clean.
2) Keep you hands clean before you pick up a blank, lam, hot coat. No grease, lotion, soap residue etc......if you cant do that, use paper towels to pick up board. This will also keep you from hot coating hand prints into your deck.
3) Did I mention that a sanded surface is the cleanest surface you can get..and don't eat a Pork Chop with you hands...wipe them hands down with a napkin and think you're safe from grease fish eyes.
I’ve sanded the board…the best I can until it was fairly equal…there was still places where the we could feel the fisheye hole, but it was difficult to sand without getting through the lam coat.
I’ve redone the hotcoat of the deck…and…same problem again…FISHEYES !!!
I got clean gloves, brand new clean rags, clean brush, clean mixing sticks, clean mixing pot. So what could be the problem ???
I’m really desperate I wondering if I will continue because I don’t see the end of that project. See fisheye on the deck in the following picture.
I was wondering if another hotcoat directly on my last hotcoat would fill the fisheyes holes or if the fisheye will appear again.
I gotta say, that is the wost case I’ve ever seen!
Are you using a new bucket to mix in, what kind of bucket is it? Maybe contaminated during it’s manufacture. Are you using surfacing agent? Additive F for Resin Research. Are you using a new brush? If not, what did you clean it with? Is it raining in your garage? Did you strain the mixed epoxy? Are you using a propane heater and blowing something on it? Is your neighbor pissed at you and hosing it off while your back is turned?
Again, I’ve never seen anything that bad before.
Maybe its something in the Lam. Your earlier posts said something about washing it with water and soap.
