Like a lot of people I lurked and stalked around Swaylocks for far too long, thinking about building a board. This last summer I finally went for it. I don’t have a lot of money and I liked the idea of making a blank out of pink XPS foam. I have read the arguments about delamination, how or how not to glass pink foam, the breakdowns of how much do you really save versus just buying a real blank and “doing it right”. I said screw it, why not try. I armed myself with a handsaw, a $28 10lb planer from Harbor Freight, a borrowed router and went to town. The result was I learned a ton, I made a bunch of mistakes, and came out the other side with one of the butt ugliest boards ever, and I love it. I could have chosen the pictures that hid my mistakes but figured they are part of the fun of a first board and may help someone else lurking, either not make a mistake or two or decide it was finally their turn to have a go at building a board.
Pic1 Made a rocker bed and glued the sheets of foam together.
2 This is when I realized I may have needed more glue.
3 My outline. I used string to mark the centerline.
4 Squared the outline and ready to shape, oh wait never mind.
5 Definitely not enough glue. I could open up the layers of foam on ends so I sort of injected more glue in and either put weight on it or taped them together.
Way to go JBrown! What really matters here is your LEARNING process. You have kicked off a board building path that will only lead you to better shapes. You probably have learned more by “messing up” than only watching others do it. You will never forget the mistakes and that only makes you better. Keep building and soon try a commercial blank, it will be much easier. Onya for having done your own blank even though you say it turned out ugly.
KEEP GOING!
Be prepared in learning the lamination process. There will be mistakes but, we all have (and continue) to make them. As I said, it’s all a learning curve.
I’ve done couple of xps boards… In my opinion its much easier to use build a rocker bench and heat up a thicker sheet than glueing it from multiple pieces. Xps starts to bend after +90 celsius degrees, so sauna is perfect place to bend it.
tblank- The lamination process was interesting and the main reason why I say the board is pretty ugly.(all those mistakes you talked about) I got better though even just from one side of the board to the other. Going to post some pictures now.
everysurfer- Thanks for the tip. I don’t feel like this board changed much but I made a SUP, dangerous topic on Swaylocks right now I know :), after the surfboard and it came out with more rocker than planned. Either my measuring skills suck (totally possible) or the blank changed as I was shaping. I wish I had checked it as I went so I could be sure. Next time.
hippo008- I had so much fun. Waiting for spring and then I am going to try a few more.
1. Thinned things out. You can see my very professional set up. When I started in the “shack”, you could see the sky through some of the holes in the roof. The floor would have puddles when it rained (no good while playing with power tools) but about halfway through the build a new roof got put on. I was so happy!
Pretty much finished here. The board is definitely thick and wide.
This is where I went rogue. This is a model testing out my solution to the delam issues of XPS. It is a primer that has something like sand in it. Once it’s dry it has a rough texture. The paint sticks to everything and everything sticks to it.
The paint definitely adds some weight, again I wish I had done a before and after to know exactly how much. I think I had to use more resin while laminating becuase of the texture of the paint. I can’t be sure since I don’t have anything to compare to. I just know after reading the amount of resin people said they use on similar sized boards that it took me more. I also acknowledge that I probably had to use more resin because it was my first time.
rails look nice! ive never done a XPS or even EPS board before. Im guessing the paint doubles as a sealer?
When you glass those bumps may be hard to get out. Lay down a thicker hot coat to make sanding easier. Also, everytime you glass, clean off your surfcae REALLY WELL. Any dust that lands on the board during glassing or is on the board already will cause pinholes and fisheyes.
Are you gunna try a “real” EPS or PU blank next time?
hippo- From what I have read about the various ways people do XPS boards you don’t need or want to seal the board. You want the blank really rough so the fiberglass will have something to stick to. I think making a pass over the blank with 60grit sand paper is the common advice. Even then I think people run in to delam issues. That’s why I tried the paint. It is probably overkill on the roughness but time will tell if things stick together any better or worse.
I would definitely need a thick hot coat to get the bumps out. I just went with the final board not being a totally smooth finish for a couple reasons. One, I followed Stingray’s glassing instructions which skip any sanding other than after lamination and two, no electric sander, I just did it all by hand. I figured the first board is about learning the big things, I can get more refined later. Besides, a little bumpy or not, it will surf and I am never going to be good enough to notice if it affects the performance
I think I am going to be a glutton for punishment a few more times before I go for a real blank.
I feel like I left too much cloth hanging. 1 layer of 5.6oz on the bottom.
You can see I had issues either being too heavy handed, not enough resin, not heavy handed enough, or the roughness of the paint made it harder to get the cloth to settle in. Or hell all of those issues a few I don’t even know about:) Lots of air bubbles and hideous fin patches HAHA. I know now I should have remedied the bubbles in a few different ways, but didn’t bother at the time. I just kept going, making sure I learned from it and the next time/board would be better.
2 layers of 5.6oz on top. I am not sure if it is better to do both layers at once or not. Thought I saw a video or two of guys doing it this way so I went with it.
The top still had some small air bubbles but turned out SO much better than the bottom. Don’t know why the picture wouldn’t rotate like the others.
and 6. Following Stingray’s (I think) instructions I did the top sand/hotcoat with no tape and just babysat the drips so I would have little to no sanding. For the bottom (no picture) I did tape the rails again no sanding if you keep things clean.
Since I didn’t do a sand coat and then hot coat or any of the sanding involved the board is smooth but not completely flat. With my level of surfing I highly doubt I would notice the difference.
Another pat on the back JBrown. Good for you for plowing ahead. This may not surf so well as others but it is the seminal board that you will #1: haved learned the most on and #2: Shown that you have some hand skills to start with. This one will kick off better and better shapes. Now comes the time to really start training your eye. Stare at your outline and compare the curves from rail to rail and your rocker and foil curves. You will begin to see the little anomalies that on future shapes will get fixed before glassing. Yeah, the fin patches are rough but for a first time your lam didn’t turn out so bad. You are on your way. Simply begin to refine your abilities. ONYA!
ps. Get REAL SPECIFIC in what you want the board to do and match the waves you will be in before making/ordering a blank. Plan thoroughly and the rest will come easier. “Well begun is half done”.
I do XPS boards without stringers. Sometimes I cut rocker slices and glue them together with Gorilla glue, but lately I just take a 3 inch slab and cut out a board with my planer. I glass it with epoxy resin and haven’t had any problems, but I haven’t ridden the boards that much. Later in the year when the soouth swells come in I’ll get more time to ride them in better waves, but right now the waves are small, so I’m riding longer boards. I place a weight on the boards when I glass it to add more rocker.
I don’t think using that sealer is helping your end product. I think you are better off glassing the board with epoxy resin and not having that sealer coat. If you need a sealer, use something that doesn’t have such a course texture. Your adding a lot of weight to the board covering that texture.
tblank- Thank you. And those fin patches are the WORST, HAHA.
tridrles- I have to think with the gorilla glue and the veneer over you would be pretty safe. Thats what I used to glue the sheets of foam together. Did you rough up the foam before gluing?
sharkcountry- I agree, I think I am adding weight with the paint and with the amount of resin it takes to fill in the texture. I wasn’t so much thinking of it as a sealer as much as something that might stick to the foam better than just the fibeglass and remedy the delam issues. I was actually planning on skipping the paint next time and seeing what happens. I am betting that I have an easier time with laminating and the amount of resin I use.
I was curious though, do you special order the 3in blocks of foam or does a hardware store near you just carry them? I was thinking of attempting a board the way you mentioned, but so far I have only seen 2in sheets and so I would still have to glue 2 together flat and work from there. Which would prevent the changes in rocker that everysurfer mentioned as you foil the board, downside would be still having to deal with the glue line. Thanks for sharing and the input though, I appreciate it.
Jon, I was lucky to get the XPS foam from a guy I know who got them from Fiberglass Hawaii years ago. He moved and was trying to get rid of a lot of stuff he had laying around. They were weathered and I got them for a really good good price. I don’t think Fiberglass Hawaii sells this anymore.
Here in Hawaii we can only get the 2" thick 4’ x 8’ sheets from Lowes. If you live in the US, you should be able to get it from a supplier and ship it to your home reasonably priced. I’ve found it up to 4" thick here on craigslist. That was a nice hard blue Dow XPS, very hard but light. I cut that into rocker slices then used gorilla glue to glue it together. I mixed EPS with the XPS to make boards too. At 4" or more rocker slices are more efficient, you can get more slices than cutting a single board out of a full slab.
Just google XPS RC model foam, or Boat Dock foam and you’ll see a lot of stuff out there. I’ve seen XPS being sold in the US that is yellow, Corning makes the pink, Dow makes the blue, and there’s also a green XPS. Check these too, Depron, Midwest Cellfoam 88. Ground shipping in the US is quite a bit lower than shipping anything to Hawaii.
Did you sand the brown sealer coat before glassing?
Refresh my memory, what did you glue the sheets of XPS together with Jon?
There is an orange XPS manufacturer I ran accross somewhere on-line. Look at the MSDS sheets for each brand of XPS. See what materials are in the foam in addition to polystyrene. Older Dow Blue, circa 1985 (maybe later too), had some polyethylene in the mix (polyethylene does not bond well with anything). Dow now uses nitrile in the mix.
IMO the closer to 100% polystyrene content the better. I believe delams are primarily related to using low density, low minimum compressive strength XPS (easy to tear and crush) and the small bubble, closed-cell nature of XPS (pores of ruptured surface cells too small for epoxy to penetrate well for better bonding). A “closed-cell” foam cannot “outgas” unless the cells have been ruptured. The closed cells are why XPS does not absorb water. If you live in a northern US climate zone you can find the higher density XPS. Contractors who do commercial refrigeration projects also use the high load/high density XPS.
For specs on Dow Blue and Owens-Corning Pink XPS click the following link: