First board, is a compsand too ambitious?

Here’s an example of a board with wood we harvested and milled. It is from a tree we call Wiliwili here in Hawaii. The trees have a very light wood, but were being attacked by a wasp in the 2000s and most if it was destroyed. I was able to get this in short logs about 2 feet long and about 12" to 18" in diameter. I dried the wood then cut it into 4" sections because my saw can only cut 4" max. Then it was cut into slices and milled to 1/8" or thicker pieces. The other board has the 1/8" thick woven bamboo. That stuff is really strong and dent resistant. We were also able to get longer but narrower Wiliwili and we milled that, but I haven’t used the longer strips yet.


Sharkcountry and his brother Bernie jumped in to compsand construction in a big way when the cat was let out of the bag.  So much creativity in a short period of time!

Regarding no vacuum… I’m pretty sure this is one of those things that was discussed in depth several years back.  A guy named Ben Sparks did one (or more?) using gallon zip-lock bags filled with water to hold the balsa planks down.  I think somebody even suggested digging out a ‘rocker bed’ in sand, wrapping plastic sheet around the blank with skin in place, placing on the rocker bed and covering with sand.  

Oh yeah - the spirit of Sway’s is alive and well.  Once in awhile it helps that someone like Greg Tate can point it out.

 

It is indeed alive and kicking!! Thanks again everyone for your thoughts and advice.

Shark country, did you ever try veenering without a vacuum set up? I have trawled through lots of old posts and heard mention of the ziplock technique but never actually seen the post. Will look again.

I have access to a saran wrap machine which i think might work?

If you like wood boards, then Huck’s method for hollow boards is pretty cool.  No vacuum bag or rocker table required.   He builds the rails first then he attaches his frame.   

Sounds interesting. I’ll give it a look. Steered away from hws due to the weight

I have not tried veneering the whole side of board at one time without vacuum. I have done strips of balsa and I used bricks.

I would say that if you had a solid rocker bed and you placed your board on the ground, you could wrap the whole thing like you would if you did a bagging, then bury it with sand or dirt such that the whole surface has a good amount of pressure. You’ll need to keep it under pressure about 4 hours. We also use a shop vac as a starter to get most of the air out of the bag. Once the bag is pretty tight, we pull the shop vac and seal the bag. Then the small vacuum pump doesn’t have to pull the whole bag down.

You could rig a shop vac up and if you can get it nice and tight then find a way to seal it without losing vacuum, that might work.  

Check out the threads on converting a cheap aquarium air pump to be a vacuum pump. I think you can get them for under $20. I got a cheap Tetra aquarium air pump and all I have to do is use the intake instead of the output side. You may have to find ways to let it bleed some air to keep from pulling too much vacuum and burning out. I haven’t tried it yet. I have another pump my brother made for me with an automatic on/off switch. It quite a bit louder than the Tetra.

I’d look at the threads on Sways then see what you can find on ebay or locally. Vacuum will be the best way to go. After you do it once, you’ll see that it’s not that hard.

I forgot that my brother has used shrink wrap or stretch wrap instead of vacuum bagging too. Just wrap the whole thing with a roll of the shrink wrap. Pull it nice and tight when you wrap it. Helps to have 2 people doing this.

Before I got a vac pump I had success using Saran Wrap around a blow up mattress and pumping it up on top of the skin. Low tech lab as reverb would say. 

All the best

GregTate wrote:

I had success using Saran Wrap around a blow up mattress and pumping it up on top of the skin.

I love it.  An original Sways pearl.  

If the mattress was strong enough, you could have gone beyond 14 psi  Not much beyond could crush the foam, especially for foam with a minimum compressive strength of 15 psi.

That concept has other potential applications in the shed.

Here are a few ways I have overcomplicated making surfboards. 

If you want a lightweight board use light wood = Balsa. You can make a vacuum bag set up for under $30. Why not do it for real.


https://swaylocks7stage.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/boo6'9'#2web.jpg


SodaBread…you drank the cool aide…you will be building more than one surfboard…The drug has already kicked in… It took me 6 vac bagged / wood skinned surfboards before I jumped ship and took a different path…

A simpler path. I live inside the hub of the So Cal board building world… I know how to make my own blanks… But I get better results if I buy a blank from US Blanks…Stingray

If you want to go with wood skins, lam a first layer of glass both side to seal an reinforced your blank then glue your wood over. Here with thin wood you can go with tape method, only on flat or light convex surface, had some weight on flat and use a tack glue, if époxy resin add cabosil to make a this tack glue.

So, after actually trying to buy the EPS it turned out it was much more expensive than they quoted me. So now I’m going down the other foam route and am going to use some polyisocyanurate foam insulation board, the density is around 1.6lbs. From my other thread I gather its very similar to pu foam but id love anyone’s experience or thoughts on this foam? I have some lying around anyway and that combined with a free rough cover sheet veener should make a super cheap proof of concept at least. So I will try and take photos as I go and no doubt will be back with lots of questions. Long live swaylocks!

Just to be sure: DO NOT HOTWIRE THIS STUFF!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyisocyanurate#Health_hazards

I can see the headline now…

 

‘Surfer found in garage with cyanide posoining’

 

In all seriousness thought i’m goign to laminate rocker into it by joining 2 sheets, keep my lungs cyanide free.

 

Cheers

Any specialized  woodworking/carpentry skills are not really going to be exercised all that much. Seems like compsand construction has its own skillset with only some crossover in the woodworking realm.  But not having built a compsand I open myself up to ridicule and scorn no doubt.  Let it fly.

The weight of even a “light” HWS is certainly a factor, and more so if you are a surfer of lighter mass, and lesser skill/experience, but its construction will require more of those specialized woodworking skills you say you want to employ.

My  custom foam boards were always glassed triple 6 with a sanded gloss coat.  I wanted them heavier just so they would not go dead underfoot or snap in half prematurely as I weigh ~100 Kilos.  I was a pretty good board mangler up to my early twenties when buying  boards of too little volume off the rack in the late 80’s early 90’s was the most chosen option.   Even with a triple 6 schedule, they still went dead underfoot and more so as the deck got crushed and soft, as it inevitabley does.  I hated the disposable nature of surfboards, and cared not for above the lip antics in my 20’s and certainly not in my 40’s.

My HWSs feel heavier under my arm than they do under my feet.  No way would a fiberglass board as heavy, ride as well. I hypothesize the more direct foot to fin connection( when using fin boxes) is partly responsible. The lack of significant flex is also a factor both + and -, but leads to a  inherent repeatability/predictability through turns, and in choppy conditions can allow one to still have gobs of fun that sends the crowd to the beach with their eyeballs still rattling.  My HWSs have developed more flex with time.  My traditional railed 9’7" is super high mileage and 13 years old and might flex 1/2 to 3/4"inch maximum, but perhaps only 1/8th when newly constructed.

They won’t be breaking any performance standards, but they allow me to go fast and turn hard and have lots of fun. They do require looking a little farther ahead on the wave as their responsiveness is delayed. Their durability means they are the longest lasting relationships in my life and my favorite travelling companions.  They always get commented upon for the wood’s natural beauty, and the air vent tends to  comically confuse the average Joe tremendously when they can’t grasp the concept of ‘hollow’, and temperature differences.

My hws internals are different than most.  I use 3 or 5 stringers(not always parallel) and parabolic rails cut from a 1x12 and tapered and stacked square and clamped to the rail rocker.  I think this method is easier to achieve a nice flowing rocker, and help keep the outline from having strange  unintentionally aysymmetric warbles in the nose and tail that the traditional single stringer multiple rib construction appears to allow all too easily.  I’ve not tried the parabolic rail first method Huck uses.  Not  sure how to do that and achieve the rocker I desire, so I stick with What I know.

I got a HWS in progress right now.  A ridiculous amount of time and labor going into this one, as I’ve had a decade +  since my last HWS build to think about, and overthink and overcomplicate the little details, and expect this board to last me the rest of my surfing years/life. As surely when I can no longer surf, I will no longer live, and riding my own creations is something special as anyone here can attest to, even if imperfect and a far cry from professional.

 

My HWS planks start just over 3/16" thick from a carefully selected  WRcedar 2x4. I get 5 planks per 2x4 on my tablesaw, and dream of six, achievable with a good bandsaw perhaps.  They are glassed on the interior to help prevent splitting along the grain as WRC likes to do when hit in the right spot by a Knee.  Center stringer is glassed too, so bending stresses do not flatten out nose rocker,  as can happen all too easily with HWS construction and make the board look like a dog.

 

HWS’s can also easily twist when one removes the weight/ clamps from them when applying the deck planks. This construction stage can make or break the boards performance and the ‘twist’ tendency  should ideally me measured and  fought from the time the board goes from 2 dimensional to three. Lots of foam handshapes are twisted too.  Hard to notice when not looking for it.  I had one HWS be an absolute precision  rocketship down the line on my backhand if a little squirrely in turns, but  on my forehand it barked like a pissed off sea lion down the line, but if I managed to accumulte some good speed despite the forehand barking, allowed me knee buckling grunting cutbacks most satisfying.

 

Anyway, have fun, and perhaps dedicate a nice level table in your workshop to slowly build a HWS in the future.  I love woodworking and this latest HWS is proving challenging and using a good portion of the woodworking skills, and tools, I have accumulated since my last HWS build in 2006.

My HWS build is stalled as I need a good  lightweight 1x12  for the rails, and am also considering a ‘stepped rail’ as this board is going to be 3" thick.

 

 

 

You can always cut rocker strips from the foam with a hand saw, then glue them together to get the width you need. I’ve made at least 10 boards this way using EPS and XPS foam, maybe closer to 20. You can get any kind of rocker this way.

When you glue the strips together, you can just use a thin band of epoxy down the middle to keep from having to cut through that when shaping. The other option is a foaming PU glue. I use the PU glue, but I may try the thin band of epoxy next time. I’ve also used regular wood glue and barbeque skewers to hold the foam strips together, but wood glue and foam didn’t work well.

Here’s a few shots of boards made from rocker slices one has 2 thick stringers and left over rockers from previous projects. The blue foam is XPS (dow styrofoam) the white is 2lb construction grade EPS insulation. I was lucky to get 3 slabs of 4’ x 8’ x 6" EPS from a contractor off of craigslist. I made 4 boards from one slab and each slab cost me $20 US. I got about 10 slabs of 2’ x 8’ x 3" XPS from a friend, $10 US each. Those were old and some were in bad shape. One some of the XPS slabs, I just cut out a board from a single 3" thick piece using a saw and a planer. No stringer, double top and bottom glass with all 4 layers wrapped around the rail.





This is all valuable stuff, thanks. The sheet I have lying around is 8x4 and 2" thick so I am going to try and glue it up over my own board as a rocker table. I have some liquid Pu glue so will use that. This combined with my free veener should make an almost free board minus the finbox and glassing. This will be a goid proof of concept and if it all works ill redo another one with more quality materials.

the foam sand so nicely.​

We have a Sways member (Paul Cannon) who did a series of Youtubes on his process for compsands a few years back.   He was doing some beautiful boards and getting some great results.  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmKwJwAjXdo

 

I don’t know much about the foam you are going to use, but check it out first. I think that foam may not bend as well as the soft EPS. You may be better off cutting rocker slices and gluing them together for your blank. You may also be able to just glass it and not worry about doing the wood skins. I’d go that route if possible. After the first one, you can decide if you really want a compsand. I stopped making the compsands because of all the extra work. I prefer banging out a board as fast as I can and getting it in the water.