I was hoping to get some insight on how to improve my technique on my next board.
I had a nice symmetrical shape prior to trying to put the rails in. I don’t exactly know what I did wrong but the rails ended up being very different from each other despite the “same” rail band markings (pics attached).
I have read most articles I could find on shaping and watched a number of videos online and it seemed straight forward (measure the same bands on both sides, connect the dots and surefoam at roughly the same angle on either side until it looks similiar). I have two major questions
When you mark your rail bands and are removing foam between the two points do you just have an angle in your mind. How do you know when to stop with the sure foam (or planer). I guess hypothetically its just when there is a nice flat band?
If your rails end up being asymmetric is there any way to fix that after the fact? I am now in a position where the right side has a different curve than the left and I am trying to come up with a reasonable way to salvage this beast.
I am surfing the great lakes in Canada and would like some input on the general shape I chose if anyone has opinions. I tried to make it really fat 6’2 23" 3" in order to keep it short enough to fit in our tiny waves which can pitch sometimes but volumous enough to get their limited power. Should I have widened the tail a bit? T
Thanks everyone, look forward to learning on this epic journey
The first pic below shows some of the different rail shapes. The second pic shows the rail bands for a fish type setup: wide and super shallow bevel on the bottom, narrow 45* bands for the bottom, apex and top of the rail and then a moderate cut followed by a shallow cut to blend in the deck.
This is definitely helpful. Im guessing the amount of height you are losing between the apex and the first rail marking is kind of down to feel more than anything measurable. Is that correct?
Also looks like your tuck actually extends pretty far into the board but it is really really shallow.
Did you use a square to check for accurate symmetry before you started cutting the rails? On a shape like that you should start on the bottom with the tucked rail. Most likely you messed up somewhere when you layed out your bands. Possibly not accurate measurements? If you layout the bands accurately, it should just be a case of cutting the bands at the proper bevel and connecting the dots. A piece of 60 grit and the palm of your hand between thumb and fingers is usually all that’s needed to blend a crude rail. How far up into the deck you take the rail is up to you and aesthetics. Measurements, dots and lines are all done to establish boundaries. It’s all about coloring within the lines. But (and a big butt); always fall back on your “eye”. One of the reasons I always encourage guys to learn to make Masonite templates. The process trains the eye. Every time you go thru a Surf Shop feel up the rails on a few boards. Trains your hand to know what a good rail feels like. Pay attention to the technical info daddy has posted. You may also benefit from using a contour gauge of some sort. They are available.
All good stuff. Looking at the OP’s picture I would say he over tucked that bottom rail. But if he were to go ahead and blend it to the bottom he could come back with a hard block and sandpaper. That would harden the bottom tuck. But he should double check the outline. Looks wonky.
One of the reasons I always encourage guys to learn to make Masonite templates. The process trains the eye. Every time you go thru a Surf Shop feel up the rails on a few boards. Trains your hand to know what a good rail feels like.
This is pro-tip is solid gold. You can do the design part on one of the CAD programs or take a copy off a site like Blending Curves, but transfer it to masonite for use as a hard template first. Even if you only plan on using it once. The process of refining and cleaning up a template will make you more sensitive to what you’re doing with your blank after you cut it out. You can hold the template up with two hands and look down the curve from your near hand to your far hand to see any wobbles or flat spots, and then work the line with a sanding block until you get a curve with no flats or breaks to it. I haven’t done a hard template in some time (because I don’t tend to exactly repeat shapes) But when I was doing a masonite template for every board I was building I usually spent about an hour at it. Sometimes longer. Extra time is something backyarders have and should use as necessary.
As for using the templates, I know the vids show shapers cutting right on the line, but in real life that’s a skill to develop, not a skill everyone is born with. So when you’re starting out, cut 1/4" or so outside of your line and use a planer (set for shallow cuts) to get close and then sanding blocks to bring the blank to your line. As you get better at cutting you can bring your cuts closer to your line.
As for groping boards to see what other shapers are doing, that’s also a must. You want to be careful about store policies and to use a light touch so as to not leave any marks or damage in any way, but it’s good to see where other shapers transition from a down rail in the tail to their rail at the midpoint and how they’re doing their foils. And don’t just look at the kinds of boards you want to build - look at everything and then consider why a noserider’s rails are done differently than a high performance longboard or shortboard. There are reasons for everything these shapers do.
Honestly your comments have been so helpful. I went back and I think I managed to get the tuck looking ok in the end and actually the whole thing looks a lot better.
I made the template out of cardboard but I think that was a stupid idea and will move to masonite for the next one. I didn’t even think to use the shaping square for the rail bands… that is obviously the right way to do it. I hand measured with a faulty sharpie and a ruler. I think that caused a lot of issues
Here are some pics.
I’m going to use this one to practice glassing and then board number two should be more optimized.
Quick question. When I cut the swallow tail I found it hard to cut all the way into the center without chopping out foam on the other side? Any tips for removing the last little bit of stringer?
Always shape the wood first. Whether it’s a stringer at the nose, tail or multiple stringers at the rail. Then form the foam to match the wood. Even if I am using an electric Jig Saw; I always stop and use a coping saw to finish the cut. I cut to the middle of the stringer from each side. Then using a mini plane or half round file shape the stringer. A block, sandpaper or screen will shape the foam to match. I have seen shapers take an electric grinder to them and just go at it. Problem with that is you sometimes wind up with a tail shape that wasn’t your original intention.
Honestly you basically described exactly what happened. I had the perfect tail but there was a massive hunk of wood extending out and getting rid of that wood caused me an immense amount of grief.
I will incorporate the wood first approach on board number two although I don’t know if Ill do a swallow tail on that one. What other sage advice do you have haha. Basically I am making all the mistakes that are common for first time shapers. I wish I had used masonite first but didn’t have a jigsaw. I definitely paid the price for that mistake in terms of exact symmetry later on.
What is your background McDing? Why do you know so much haha
We learn by doing. At least I did and still do. I was fortunate to be around a few shapers and laminators in production settings. You can pick up a lot of info here on Sways, but using that info either validates it or puts it in the dumpster.
