FIRST TEST RIDE: EPS vs Poly: a semi true to life test

Submitted to the Loyal Order of Swaylocks, two identical boards, two different materials. This test has nothing to do with sanded finish vs polished, or the fluid dymanics of water. What it does test is two boards, and which one feels better…isn’t that what surfing is all about. I want to give some props to Ken at Segway composites (airframe) he’s got so much aloha, he set me up with the materials to build this EPS board the right way. If you haven’t tapped into his resources and knowledge your missing a good opportunity…Here’s the specs:

EPS- 7’10" x 20 1/5 x 2 5/8 (this is 1/8 thinner than the poly, because everybody says go thinner to make it the same?) Segway LD80 blank, Resin Research, 6 oz Impact glass, 4-6-6 top, 6 bottom, Pro Box, 5200 fastcure for box set, UPOL Gloss Polish for light weight. Board weight less than 6 lbs, fins GRP FCS

Poly- 7’10" x 20 1/2 x 2 3/4 , Clark 711R , 4-6 top, 6 bottom ProBox set in resin w milled fiber, Silmar gloss polish, Board weight 8 lbs fins GRP FCS.

Let the game begin…too bad no waves?

Resinhead

I want to second the props given to Ken at Segway. He’s really helpful.

Interesting test. What density is the EPS? 2 lb? Already I can tell you one thing about the two boars- if I was riding them my bony knees would pock mark the deck of the poly in a matter of weeks (days). Instead with a similar glass schedule on the deck of my epoxy I only have a wide, generalized indentation where my knee hits when diving.

Post your results- you must have got waves this weekend.

This is the thread I’ve been waiting for a long, long time. Thanks, Resinhead. :slight_smile:

what stringers are in each board? did you glass both? are the rail laps the same length? I’d be interested to know how stiff each feels and what kind of flex response you get on bottom turns. great experiment, looking forward to hearing more.

why not glass with epoxy extra heavy to make it glide like a poly. i had a noseglider from patagonia and it was a heavy ol log, rode it exclusively for like two years and beat the crap out of it like i do all my boards and it didnt have a single pressure dent on the deck when i de-waxed it and sold it.

The only issue I foresee is that one board is white while the other has some sort of resin swirl with pinlines. Surely, this will effect the outcome and nullify any significant findings.

Well this should be interesting!

Just dont forget to repeat the tests after a robust one year abuse cycle…pupe might be the leader out of the gate, but down the home stretch epoxy might pull ahead.

I have some other relevent thoughts but I think I’ll wait.

I was just out at Ken’s this weekend and I agree - he is a great guy! He definately goes out of his way to make sure that you get exactly what you need.

stringers, layup schedules, lap sizes, specific resins and cure cycles, exact rail shape…

…Been there, and not just one cycle of 2 boards, but hundreds, literally.

…so, were they both machined from the same file or shaped to kind of match the

respective construction method? Were both built to get the “most” out of their respective

build techniques? Equal effort and expertise?

In spite of all the possible quivelling I am VERY curious to see what someone else finds out.

Hopefully this will be as pragmatic as possible, just a bottom-line, “driver’s impressions” test.

Riveted to this thread.

You can shape flex in, or out of a board, you can glass it in/out, stringer it, skin it.

Plus,

a 6 lb board that’s almost 8 ft long? almost don’t care what it’s made of, I bet I could

figure it out and like it (anecdotal). Someone else might hate it.

Hardest part of this test series (and ResinHead will attest to this) is Mother Nature…

I hear ya boyz. I’m horribly tough on surfboards. The swirl orange board has had it’s fins ripped out an numerous dings, but it is strong as a ox. The Orange board is a survivor from last winter & 2 trips to the North Shore. I plan on taking the EPS board to the NS from Oct 6-16th, then another trip in Feb…plus hopefully we will have another good Winter. The Impact glass is pretty amazing stuff, If you haven’t check it out…do it. It’s got twice the amount of glass per sq/in, but it’s flat, and doesn’t suck up much resin.

Anyhow I shaped and glassed both the boards. (got a few more bubbles in the impact glass than i’m used to, EPS gassing some, kind of like little volcanoes) I tried to shape the EPS to the exact specs as the poly, it’s dam close, rocker, rails and foil same. (I had the luxury of taking my time on this one) The bottom set up on both is flat entry, single under front foot, slight double in front of fins, to double, flat out tail. One is a cut lap, the other is a free lap. The Clark is a 3/16 bass wood, the EPS is a 3MM PVC. Yep there not exact…there made out of different stuff.

Why not glass it heavy with epoxy??? Why would I do that, your just defeating the purpose. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a pu/pe trooper tried and true, I love the smell of resin. Like I said in my initial statement, it’s a test of materials, and what I feel is a better surf for my 80’s style surfing. I can tell you right now that it won’t be a good board at Sunset with 20 mph trades blowing, It’s not made for that.

Also sorry for the crappy pics. The post won’t let you go more than 29kb. Enough Resinhead babble, blab, blab, blab

Also…everybody knows bright swirl boards are 3x faster than white boards.

Quote:

Also…everybody knows bright swirl boards are 3x faster than white boards.

Not exactly true: only BLUE ones…

Go for it Resinhead!!!

1-3 foot slop all weekend …

Quote:
The whole thing that got me shaping was the horrible selection of Big Guy Tri's, I'm 6'3" @ 215lbs I didn't want a fun Board, and I didn't want a thick pig made for some dude that weighed 280 lbs. So, I'm not into 6ft somethings pump & squirts boards, and I'm not into 8'0" fun boards.

The board is 7’10" and over 20 inches wide.

It’s a design that works well for me. It’s nothing like an 8ft fun board. Walk a mile in my shoes my friend.

Jay, Jeff, and Dan… I appreciate the kind words.

From the heart.. 



  Ken

EPS vs My Poly:

Surf chest high to 2 feet over head.

I paddled out on the EPS, my buddy paddled out on the poly. I surfed 5 waves, traded out boards…and my buddy never gave my EPS board back for the rest of the session.

Negatives, EPS not as durable. Showing pressure dings from heal (next time I’ll go 3x6oz on the deck) nothing big, just noticed them.

Paddle, felt real good, actually caught waves better than the poly board? Lighter, quicker…I don’t know why, but I was out paddling most of the crew, must have been the big breakfast & the stoke of finally getting waves in So Cal

Drop ins, made a few waves that I would normally would not have. Don’t know if its because the 1/8 less in the tail so I can stand / sink the tail and take a bit more on take off, and therfore pick the nose up? , but it made a few good steep drops.

Bottom turn, projects out of the bottom turn like nothing I’ve ever surfed before. Like loading up a spring and letting it go…noticable, but not obnoxious, kind of like someone giving you a little push out of the bottom turn, very good at weighting / unweighting. Stable making sections coming from behind the foam soup.

Cut backs, felt good and loose, but not as drivey coming around from the round house. But very good at bouncing off the foam ball and redirecting down the line. Felt more in control on the bounce back / redirect. Though I’m still a surf hack, and need a few more sessions in this arena.

Floatation, floats well, but not as well as my poly. Why? Due to the 1/8 less thinness less than the poly board. The EPS is 1/8 all around thinner. What I would do next time is keep your standard thickness, and take a pass or two more out of the rails. So far I don’t see the validity to make your boards thinner because it’s made out of EPS, but it might come into play with bigger waves and more speed?

Board is lighting fast, probably due to the overall lightness, and the PVC stringer ability to load and compress and release the energy out of the bottom turn. Actually it feels like the boards short comings from material and design are only limited to Resinheads surfing abilities. I’m wondering what’s going to happen when it gets bigger? How much more energy will it store and release, or will it load up and fail, or will it load up and slingshot me right into the fricking lip like Andy Irons.

Limitiabilities don’t know from the one surf, but I’m stoked on the first surf, feels like I’m a kid again surfing a 6’6". Durability? I made it extremely light weight, so if it lasts 6 mos, or 6 yrs will be the question. I could have put a bunch more glass on it, and it still would have been lighter than a surftech. It’s an experimental vehicle, and if i was doing it for consumers, I’d have to make it more durable.

Buddy friends assessment, Buddy friend has owned a Linden 8’0 fun gun XTR and about 6 yrs old… Had trouble with it…he says too corky? He didn’t want to surf the resinhead EPS…I made him. He is a wave hog by nature, and on the EPS board he was a wave hog pain in the ass x 2. I saw him surf on it and it looked like he was hitting higher up on the wave than normal, but he looked kind of squirley coming out of the bottom turns, but he was showing more bottom of the board in the turn than normal. His assessment was that he want’s one in about a 8’8" range for the Winter.

I’ll report back when I get more waves…bigger waves, and…if I can get the board back from buddy

Resinhead from the lab,out

hey resin head

i cant see any point in making them thinner either

its good for composites

but plain eps?

id be grateful for the xtra bouyancy

thanks a lot for the report Jay !

one of the things Nick Carroll said in that firewire article I scanned and posted was that the design was different to conventional boards he rides , so he didn’t think it was a fair comparison for him .

Sounds like , apart from the 1/8" thinner factor , your two boards …were they the same shape and dimensions , otherwise ?

cheers

ben

…I look forward to following this thread during your “fall” and winter …

Quote:

Sounds like , apart from the 1/8" thinner factor , your two boards …were they the same shape and dimensions , otherwise ?

I tried to make everything exactly the same. Fin size, toe, cant, placement, rocker, hard edge, tuck on the hard edge, size, shape, rocker…everything, except for the 1/8th thickness that was carried through the entire length of the board. But as PlusOne said, it wasn’t made on a CNC.

One of the things that I failed to mention is that the fin boxes are set with 3M 5200, this material dries hard, but it still has a bit of flex in it. This might be allowing the fins and box to add additional torque coming out of a turn? it will definitely help if you hit a rock or something hard like skull.