I’m considering beginning to glass with Epoxy instead of Poly. I would still use a PU blank. I’ve been reading the archives and see that some people do it all within 24 hours and other wait a little between each step. Due to my work schedule I would sometimes have to wait up to week between steps. It looks like I would just have to scuff the resin and clean it well with denatured alcohol if I wait. Most of the archives I’ve been reading are from 6 to 8 years ago. Has additve F changed anything? Would I still need to scuff and clean well or can I treat it more like glassing with poly?
Second question is I’ve heard that I should do a fill coat between the lam and the hot coat. Is that necessary or can I glass just like I do with poly - lam bottom, lam top, hot coat top, hot coat bottom, sand.
J3 - Swaylocks resident epoxy expert is Greg Loehr. Look in the archives for his posts and also check the Hot Seat section of this site. He was one of the past Guests & answered a wide range of questions.
No expert here, I’ve done a couple dozen boards with epoxy. Waiting a week or two between coats is typical for me, with my out of town work schedule. I sand between coats, never wipe down with denatured alcohol.
Tehnically there is no “hot coat” with epoxy, just lam coat and fill coat. Sometimes I do more than one fill coat.
For fill coats / final coats, I often do a cheater coat, i.e. a very thin coat, squeegeed as thin as possible, let it gel, then apply standard coat. Minimizes fish eyes.
The very thin squeege coat works to prevent fisheyes. I’ve done it with time between and I’ve had no issues, athough I’m sure as soon as possible isn’t gonna hurt. Not that I’m an expert, but I’ve done 5 epoxy boards now and I’ve never had any issues with any of them.
Thanks for the help, Huck, you say you let the thin “cheater” coat gel and then do the standard. Do you mean the epoxy is just starting to set up/tacky? How long are you waiting in that step? Would there be any reason to not let the thin coat harden completely? Also when you sand, but don’t clean with alcohol, are you just blowing the dust off? What grit do you use between coats? Thanks again.
The only thing you have to keep in mind is fully cured epoxy is “close” to near all, so you have to prep for mechanical bond for recoat: clean, no grease or other contaminent, if you have to clean soapwater can do the job, solvent cleaner can be best contaminent sometimes, abraded surface, bigger grit is better but as époxy is a good glue every thing that cut shine is good, from 36grit to scotch brit pad, coat quickly after sanding is the trick.
I let cheater coat gel not harden as that would defeat the purpose. Timing depends on the resin being used, and the temp, etc. I hand sand with 100 grit between coats, brush the dust off lightly.
I posted the almost same ? About a year ago and I asked if 2 x coat after lam was reccomended and the one answer was how good of a sander I was. I now do lam 2 coats after within a day of each other without sanding. One coats if you think you won’t sand through or 2 and you have a buffer to work with.i wipe with a clean wet hot rag.
On the bottom, I always grind into the glass around the fin boxes. So, now I put a little extra patch of glass on top where the fin box goes and I just expect to grind into it.
On the deck, I always grind into various spots - usually near the nose. I just get the sanding as flat as possible and I will end up hitting the weave at some point.
For the first hot coat, I just expect that I am going to hit the weave a little and just make sure everything is flat.
On the second hotcoat, it always just sands flat and nice - doesn’t ever touch the weave.
I’m not a Pro. I learned it all here on Swaylocks.com. Chemical wipe downs and/or soapy scrub downs are so wrong it’s sillly.
Before you can ask “what has changed?” you need to understand “what has not changed”. Read the link that JRandy posted. I still use the same method…just better chemicals.
Not changed… Wash your hands. Location and SHOP TEMP matter. Proper chemicals and proper mix ratio are very important. Volume or Wieght you decide. get your RATIO right. Add F is optional. Expect problems if your shop temp is less than 65’F… and rain with cold will really screw you up.
Changed… Kwick Kick Resin. UV brighteners. 1.5 hour flip times. You can still buy the slower curing epoxy from Resin Research. You can also buy a wide range of faster curing products from Resin Research…and there’s more people making resin for surfboards so you might find a competior that you like. My crew of backyard glassers is using Resin Research Kwick Kick PH Ultra… We’re getting 1.5 hour flip times with a 70-75’F shop temp. Game changer. Talk to your supplier!
More than one way to skin a cat… most posters are out of their minds…I dis-agree with several people on this thread…Find a system that works for you…I put it out there…I walk the walk.
Lam bottom. Lam top. Hot coat top. Hot coat bottom. Let cure for a few days. Set fin boxes. Sand the crap out of everything… Really.!!!.. sand it good and flat…Now do the Gloss Coat…aka second hot coat because epoxy does not have a lam/hot/gloss. It’s all the same resin… wash your hands…don’t eat greasy foods.
2 lam coats works well with epoxy…sometimes 3…they gotta be thin or you will get runs…light sand between coats…plenty of pot life…no need to rush… 2-3 lam coats makes sanding a breeze …end product IS superior - just take a bit longer.
I am with you stingray, best process is not to wait between each resin step so in warm place with addf or no blush resin no cleaning is needed = far less problems. But when you have to wait before steps sometimes with cold temp you have to accomodate and sometimes you think you have to clean, that’s where i find soapwater on scotch brit far effective than alcool. Most of time i have to wait before steps so i cheater coat lam then it’s fast easy and effective to clean prep (+ it can have mechanical advantage…)
I just watched the Keahana glassing video someone suggested. They show something different than I’ve ever seen or heard. When laminating the deck he does the first layer, lets it gel, then puts the second layer of glass on and laminates that - two separate laminations on the deck. Do you have to do that with epoxy or can you put both layers of dry glass down at once and laminate both at the same time, like I have been doing with poly resin. I do remember reading somewhere that epoxy does not soak into the cloth so maybe this is a step I wasn’t aware of. Thanks again
J3…you live where? I’m in Southern California. If you can glass a surfboard with Poly Resin … You have the skills to glass with Epoxy Resin. Same steps, go slower, different chemicals. Right now you are over thinking the process. Where do you live?
When I was first looking into glassing with epoxy a Top Pro told me I should wait for summer to do my first epoxy Glass Job. He was right.
Stingray, I live in the Santa Cruz Mountains. If you’re not familiar with that location it is the hills just outside of Santa Cruz, CA. It gets a little colder up here. Last night it was 30 degrees outside and my garage was 56 this morning. So I have been thinking about heaters or waiting a few months before I try epoxy. I agree I am overthinking it, but I tend to do that. I’m going to go talk with a local shaper in a few weeks and see his process with epoxy and the other new step I’m taking (future fin boxes). I have a gallon of poly that I will use for my next board but after that if it is warm enough I will give it a shot with epoxy. What’s the worst that could happen? My wife even wants me to give it a try, and she doesn’t often give opinions on shaping! Thanks
Working very cleanly and stable temperatures of 70 or more are the keys with epoxy. Having a dust free glassing area is key but not real practicle for many of us. About 10 years ago I was making boards with epoxy but didn’t like how they would turn amber 6 months later so I abandoned epoxy and went back to poly. The long flip times, sanding issues and extra care needed were also factors in me switching back. My understanding is those issues are resolved now and the boards don’t yellow as quickly. Sometimes I think about going back to it because I like the ding resistance you get from epoxy over poly blanks.
Its hard to beat the speed that I can complete a UV Poly glass job. I’ve already shaped a board on Saturday and had it glassed and finished by Sunday afternoon. The OP may want to consider going UV Poly since he often has to leave the board set for a week. With UV Poly you can lam and hotcoat a board in a snap. Once its hotcoated you can leave it set for as long as you’d like. I can get a shortboard lamed and hotcoated in about 3 hours with no problem. Faster if I had the right facilities.
PS: I always washed with dawn dish soap after sanding. Never had a problem.
6 gallons of epoxy resin showed up in San Diego today. Cold wet weather on the way. Stingray and Crew are set up to glass year round with epoxy. First time guy??? Wait for summer…
I just finished my first epoxy glassing. 5-10x22x2.75. It went ok and I liked working with epoxy better than poly (my wife and family liked it even more than me). I used way to much on the bottom lam and I left about $15 of epoxy on the tarp on my garage floor. I followed Stingray’s method for most of it, but as I was getting to the bottom hot coat my wife and daughter asked me to go with them to the movies, so I missed the timing window. I’ve always been a kind of a rule breaker so I didn’t worry too much about it. A couple days later I put my fin boxes in before I hotcoated the bottom. After the boxes were set I sanded the bottom lightly, did a cheater coat, let it get tacky and then hot coated the bottom. I used way too much on the cheater coat and waisted another few dollars of epoxy. I waited a week and sanded. Then I touched up some spots and made my biggest mistake. I tried sanding the touch up too early and it smeared instead of being clear. Those couple spots now look kind of crappy. I noticed that I seemed to use more sand paper sanding the epoxy than poly. Is that common?
Overall, I’m pretty happy with it. Definately have room for improvement. Actually I have a lot of room to improve on not just epoxy but on glassing in general. Next one I’ll have a much better idea on how much material to use. I think I will stick with putting my fin boxes in before the glass. It was more difficult cutting through the glass and at one point jumped and made the bottom channel too wide.
I’m going to let the board cure for another week and then take it out. I appreciate all the help I received from everyone on Swaylocks - Thanks!
