Fish advice for an amateur

General Discussion
1

Hey Swaylockians,

I guess I’m looking for a little advice.

This is my second board I’ve shaped by myself, my first board ‘works’ and I can honestly say is my favourite board I’ve had but I just want to get this next one really refined.

The plan is a shape similar to the Classic Lost round nose fish, I like my volume up front for paddling and stepping up the board a little, and the narrower tail to manouvre, I find wider tails a bit unresponsive.

Dims planned are 5’4 x 19 1/4 x 2 3/8.

So the questions are: What are some good measurements for 12" from nose/ tail and where abouts is a good widepoint?

Are there any good tips for rocker? Where abouts should the nose and tail rocker transition into each other? When should the tail kick start?

And lastly, I really need to sort my rails, they’re always quite thick and shapeless, any tips on tucking them and getting a bit of a better shape?

My current 5’5 I use pretty much every surf regardless of size as I’m so used to it. This board i’m looking to change it up a bit, something for 1-4 foot kind of thing but it’d be great to have the possibility to use it up to 6’.

Cheers in advance for any help and replies. I’m landlocked for a good few months so can’t wait to really put some time into the build and will keep it updated on here.

2

Your best bet, is to do a search.  There are a bunch of really good fish threads to read. Recommended searches: fish, retro fish, modern fish, fish rocker, fish foil, fish dimensions.

In the previous threads, there are pictures, dimensions, and tons of other good info.  If that doesn’t cut it, Google “The Design and Construction of a Surfboard”.  There’s a Lis Fish in the book with all dims.  Still, if that isn’t enough, go to your local surf shop with a tape measure and a camera and find something similar. There’s a big difference between feeling a board and seeing a picture of one. 

Then again, I don’t really know anything, and there are many on here who do.

Hope it helps, John

3

Hey Ollie I have never made the exact board you’re describing, but I’ll just share a few things you might find helpful - I’m just a backyarder, so keep that in mind.

First of all, I would study the Lost RNF Classic photos available, take note of all the details visible.  When I draw my template, I always remember the words of an experienced shaper who once told me, Don’t get hung up on dimensions, pay attention to the curves.  If the curves are right, the dimensions will be too.  I generally draw my own templates from research, rather than make an exact copy off another board.

Most modern blanks are pretty close tolerance, so if you pick the right blank, the rocker shouldn’t require more than a bit of fine tuning to get it where you want it.  Again, study the photos.  And study the blank catalogs, they have lots of good information, dimensions, etc.

From the pics, it looks to me like the deck is pretty flat, the rails are down all the way with a bit of tuck.  Use rail bands to shape the right contours step by step, don’t just start rounding off at will.

The description of the round nose fish is “low overall rocker and a central concave for lift, into a spiral vee in tail, for control”, I’m guessing the RNF classic isn’t much different.

Use good sidelighting when shaping, and take your time, don’t rush the job.  Remember you can always take more foam off, but you can’t put it back on.  Sneak up on the final shape gradually.  Only guys with years of experience can shave it down with a power planer right to the bone, and clean up with sandpaper, and get it spot on.  As a backyarder, I use a planer to skim the blank, then I use a sureform to work my way to the shape gradually.

http://blog.surftangents.com/?p=164

4

Try ~15 5/8" for nose and 14 1/4" tail, with a ~5 7/8" wide swallow.

take it out of the center of a regular shortboard blank, losing some of the rocker at ends.

5

Ollie, pay attention to Mike.  He knows.

6

The Fish templates from this thread may or may not be useful to you:

http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/aku-gurus-designing-shape-copyrighted-image

From Surfding:

Surfding #2 as PDF:
From ColinIG as full-size Printable PDFs:
Good luck with your build. As already stated, heed Mike Daniel's input.
7

Mike Daniel recommend the right dims for the classic version . New ones (rnf3) have 14 3/4 " tails and a hard wing 8 iinches up.

2322×4128 1.11 MB

2322×4128 1.04 MB

8

…Lost does not offer a true fish. They can call it whatever they want…it’s not really a “Fish”

Here’s something to think about…a long time ago someone on Sways told me to find a shape that works…and go from there…So, you seem to have a board that works?

Maybe go a little thicker or wider. Did you measure out your board…do a little reverse engineering??? Random questions are great…you get random comments…

measure the rocker on the board you like…look at a blank catalog…buy a blank…I found out that the 6’10 fish blank and the 7’7"A from US blanks fit my surfing needs…lets start with the board you like and progress from there.

 Location matters. Not because people want to call you a kook but because Pipeline is steep and Carlsbad is weak…

9

 

Agree 100%. The OP wants something similar to that  …lost design, which has three fins. He doesn’t want a fish.

10

SammyA Has it right. Cal it what you want but that is not a Fish.  It’s a winged swallow tail.  A very Popular style board in the mid 1970’s. Of course better planning surface and the thruster set up in a nice blend of old and new. 

11

…a (modern) fish is not for an amateur.

Those photos are from a rocket fish; those are part of the modern fish, that design is between a rocket and a (modern) fish.

A fish do not have so little tail, so may be you ll go better with an egg (same rocker than a shortboard, same rails but less tail…go 2" tall than the fish)

A fish do not work right as a thruster, better quad, best “2 in 4” fins (2 keels splitted in 4), and ok as a twin and bit better as a twinzer; tracked if its have keels.

The modern fish have certain characteristics, please see the thread like mentioned by JohnB.

 

-Also, Stingray is right and that is a common mistake from most surfers.

12

I have a book from the 70’s called SURFBOARD DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION by James Kinstle. It has ALL the dims for the original Steve Lis fish, fin templates, everything down to the rail cross sections. This would be super helpful, especially rocker, thickness, rail bands. You could adapt the basic idea to your specific needs. I could probably copy the dims if you want…

13

beaultiful advice Mike Daniel 

14

Not directed at anyone in particular:

As has been pointed out already, Ollie is aiming to emulate a particular board design, which regrettably has the word “fish” in it’s name.  In your efforts to guide him, please don’t get too sidetracked by it’s deviation from the original or the purist’s definition of what constitutes a “fish”.

Also, he doesn’t say whether he’s an amateur surfer, or an experienced surfer but amateur shaper.  I understood the latter.

What he’s really making is a swallow-tailed shortboard.  Perhaps a thruster; perhaps - hopefully - a 5-fin combo.

So far, Mike Daniel’s advice has been the most helpful.

15

Just call it a rnf and we don’t have to do “the great fish debate”.

I’ve been doing a board called the flashback fish for nearly 20 years, I purposely put the “flashback” in front of it so no one would confuse it with a “real” fish. Matt did the same when he did the rnf.

And the wp should be about 1" up on a 5’4"…

16

The oracle from Indialantic has spoken. 

17

Hello Ollie, I’m backyard. After going crazy with all kinds of designs and different surfboards I went back to square one…back to the board I liked. Back to The pro board I bought off of the rack…that board got thrashed but was so good I never threw it into the trash…it’s about 15 years old now.

I’m on my 4th or 5th version of that board. magic stuff…go crazy with your new surfboard. Please measure the rocker on the surfboard that you like…just for a baseline…Ray