I have been reading a lot on these two variations of a traditional fish. I would be interested in getting some concise opinions on:
What are the basic performance differences of a twin keel v. a quad (i.e. speed-dialer)
What type of waves does a twin keel work in? (excel in?)
What type of waves does a speed dialer work in? (excel in?)
I have searched an read the archives, but I am trying to make a decision on which one of these to build.
thanks
Quads, more holding power, slightly wider sweetspot, better as a working surfboard in all around conditions including flatter waves.
Twins, tighter sweetspot, traditional style, snappier, better for glassy, hollow waves than flatter, bumpier surf, more a point break/reef specialist.
I have several variations on the fish theme right now and surf each as regularly as I can.
Twin Keel: I have two. One pro made, one homemade. Both are loose and slip slidey. I feel more comfortable in softer, rolling type waves. Seems like it would be suited to a point wave type set up (which I don’t get to surf locally). Fun to ride and fast. Seems to handle better surfed off the front foot. Not really my board of choice for more quality conditions.
Modern fin template twin fish: Similar to the keel for me but I feel a little more in control. Board is snappier through turns and more positive in steeper sections.
Twinzer fish: I love twinzers! Super fast. Slidey but controllable. Seem to work well in a variety of beach break conditions. Twin fin on steriods.
Quad fin: My primary board is a speed dialer with canard quad set up. I’ve tried it with the curved ‘turbo’ fins as well. This board is great. Doesn’t feel as racey as the twin or twinzer to me, but it really locks in. Good when hollow–still good in mush. Can be surfed off the front or back foot. Feels much more like a thruster than the other. Can be surfed vertically but the wide point and foil forward thing gives it weird swing weight. This board is fantastic for sprinting down the line and laying down a figure 8 (or trying too, hehe).
My thoughts anyway. all of these boards have roughly similar planshapes and dims (5’10’’ to 6ft and anywhere from 20’’ to 23’’ wide).
hunter
EDIT: It may appear that Lee and I disagreed on the twin fin thing in mushy/hollow waves. My twin keels are pretty squirrely but bear in mind that builder error could have something to do with that. Also, my twins with modern fin templates felt really solid in hollow/steep surf.
I agree with above… twin keel fish work best in steep, hollow, fast waves with glassy/offshore conditions. They work in lots of other kinds of conditions, too, but like long, fast point surf best, where down the line speed is needed to make sections, but you can still do pretty hard, wide, open face turns.
I think four-finned fish have much less spin-out, so the emphasis can lean towards snap rather than swoop, but pure top end speed is somewhat compromised. Also can pull in the tail a bit more and utilize concaves better. It’s also been said that some can out-perform a twin in a wider range of conditions, but I’m not sure.
here,
check this out: http://www.pipedreamsurfboards.com
there is info about both on here, plus some other funky stuff
OK - now that I have both twin keel and speed dialer set up traditional fish, I would have to say that the twin keel has much more drive than the speed dialer setup. The SD setup is really loose and I do not seem to be able to get up to top speed immediately, like i do with the twin keel. I’m thinking the fin cluster may be either too tight or the fins are too far forward.
I am planning to do some experimentation (since I have a lokbox setup) to see if I can get a little more drive with the quad. I also spun out on my bottom turn on the first couple of waves (conditions were fast and relatively hollow). I felt a little sketchy compared to when I ride my Twin and know it will hold the high line and rip the bottom turn no problem. I’ve only ridden the quad twice thus far, so I need a little more time to dial it in.
Any suggestions on settimg up the speed dialer fin config?
Move those rear fins all the way back! Also I’ve noticed that in hollower dumping type surf I actually need to take an extra stroke or two to get in early. If you fall out of the lip late you end up with too much weight on the tail hence the spin out. Give it a few more surfs to find the sweet spot!
Thanks again Lokbox. Would you move the front fins all the way up too?
Not at first. If you feel it could be a bit more stable after that then nudge them forward.
I’ve had similar questions/issues as you guys. I have a quad fish too… I got a set of fins at T&C quads at Rainbow - a bigger twinnie style fin an a small upright “trailer” that looks like a mini keel. I switched 'em, and put the big guy in back an small guy up front, and problem solved! - It holds in, turns nicely, almost thruster-like, and still goes super fast. Ridden it in everything from beach break to mush to overhead and a half and it all feels good!
by the way I am clueless as to how to use these threads!, I hope I used the right “etiquette” i n responding - also, I have pics of my fin set up and would post them if anyone want to see, let me know
I’d like to see the set up.
incidentally, I have been riding my quad a lot lately. It feels slower than my twin keel in everything by juicy waves. The twin keel flys in the mush, but does not turn as sharply.
The quad is fast also, but does not seem as lively in softer waves. It turns really well though.
The one thing that I think i disaggree with as far as conventional wisdom, is that the quads hold in better. I think the twin does. I have not had extensive experience on either setup, but so far it seems that with the twin keel you can hold that high line easier, you just sticking the keel and pin in the wall and go.
Here’s my stick - A 5’10" Freeline quad. I haven’t tried a true twin keel yet, but I imagine they’d be faster - less fin less drag. This board seems a nice compromise, though, like a one board quiver. I wish I could find out more about these fins - the guy at Rainbow said they were seconds due to cosmetics, and I have no idea what kind of board they were actually made for.
What you said about the pin/fin sticking idea makes sense for sure & I love that “high line” feel so I guess I’ll have to try a keel!http://www.swaylocks.com/images/gforum/files/image.gifhttp://www.swaylocks.com/images/gforum/files/image.gif
Hi all, is there a standard set up or measurment for the canard quad/speed dialer fins as they relate to each other? I’m assuming the two fins are placed in about the same location as a keel would be, but thats about all I know about them. Also wondering if anybody has tried a speed dialer set up on bigger boards (like 6’10" to 7’2")?
Thanks!
Scott
