Sorry, can’t find any entry that says keels no worky. In most conditions, most guys blah blah. I’ll stand behind the claim. And you will recall I wrote in the first person as to my account of the comparison of set-ups, you no doubt rip all sleds.
There’s some good info in here but some I disagree with. It’s all subjective and varies from rider to rider. I’ve never gone faster on a surfboard then I have on a 4 fin. Yes they turn better (sharper) than twin keels. There’s this little place i go to in south america that’ll throw a 400 yard left at you if you can beat it…
Often found myself being left behind on the thruster. Whipped out the 4 fin fish and lo and behold I was outrunning it…
You want speed
get a griffin classic or Modern Fish with his unique tail, rails and bottom design along with his handcrafted G10 fins.
Once you ride one of those you’ll realize that concaves, big tails and keels are more living in the past than the present.
Everyone that bought and has ridden one (not a used one off craigslist) has become a convert
there’s even a couple here
but alot more over at the surfer mag
its like watching a growing infection
and no one listened to us
when my brother and I first warned folks about these boards
I love the fact that 's it the actual riders and owners of the end product that are going bonkers over and not some magazine or media push that’s actually drawing interest to getting one.
A classic case of how viral marketing can lift up a deserving product out of the muck
no matter how deeply buried it may be.
I’ve been a convert for more than a couple of years and no matter how you try to describe the sensation of speed and control you’ll never truly understand it until you ride one.
But once you do and figure them out (although everyone can tell you what you need to do before hand) you’ll be as convinced as the rest of us that Greg (chandler) has figured something out that most haven’t a clue of where to start.
Retro is great
but Griff’s boards will take you to another dimension in your surfing…
Sorry I know this sounds completely silly
but you just have to ride one to understand
its too hard to make folks visualize the experience with just words.
For me Greg’s design boils down to this one sentence…
With one you can do what ever you want to do when and where ever you want to do it on a wave as you’re only limited by your imagination and your self doubts. They’re that good.
I think that’s just about all you could ever ask from your surfboard…
no limitations…
Where are you in Europe? You might try to get something custom from over yonder maybe even check out: www.barrelsurfboards.com
www.barrelsurfboards.blogspot.com
I ride mostly logs to and I think a more retro outline is a great alternative, for me the fact that they are so wide makes them much more enjoyable than a standard 6’2" thruster and it is so easy to get them going and keep moving. The twin works allright backside but I can’t believe that someone is claiming that on tiny arse waves they are better than frontside…to each his own I guess. Anyways I would try to get something custom there.
Did you run Marlon’s Bamboo fins? Knox is killing it at jbay on a set. My JHall has Dan Parch wood quads laid-up, my next one will have 4 lokbox w/ Bamboozlers for travel… like to this little place in S. America I’ve heard about.
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Sorry miijknahs, I’m a newbie as you can see so to answer your question the board is a true fish with a wide swallow. I have ridden one of the mini simmons “pocket calculators” though and they’re really fun, it’s like skating a pool on a wide deck with wide trucks, and for something only 5’ 3" they really paddle. Good time to be a surfer, good times.
I ride pools with a 10.5" pig looking deck with 9" trucks. Very comfortable for me.
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Exactly.
I still need to hit up the Culver City clover. I’ve only been riding the Santa Monica bowl for the last couple years.
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You guys are confirming my suspicions. I wanted to hear something else, but the truth is always the best.
So I can the idea of getting the traditional bing twin fin.
My options are the Zippi of the bing quad, which looks a lot more like the zippi.
The synchronizer also looks good but I’m not sure how much use it would have in the mediocre surf I usually find myself in.
So I guess the topic should now be, zippi vs quad!
Any thought?
If it’s Zippi vs. Bing quad, get the Zippi (twin or quad). The Griffin 5 fin sure sounds intriguing though…
yes, I’ll gladly chime in and completely agree in re Griffin’s HP Fish Design… it simply cannot be put into words, you must try one, I feel like i have rediscovered surfing.
pleaae post a pic of the zippy fish. thx
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yes, I'll gladly chime in and completely agree in re Griffin's HP Fish Design... it simply cannot be put into words, you must try one, I feel like i have rediscovered surfing.
That’s the 5 fin? What kind of boards did you surf before getting the Griffin?
I'm on the fence when it comes to keel vs quad. The fastest board I've ridden, and my current favorite is a 5'8 Josh Hall Mini fish simmons quad with speeddialer fins. Those fins and that board were made for each other. Epic. It is also one of the most fluid turning boards I've ridden.
However, it isn't as "pure" in terms of natural line on the wave face as my favorite keels. For reference I ride a 5'6 Chris Christenson keel, 5'8 Steve Lis keel, 6'0 SKip Frye Keel, and a 6'8 Steve Lis keel on a sairly regular basis. The keels have more in common with the trim and glide longboard set than the quads. The quad is more versatile. As for backside, the 5'6 CC and one of my 5'8 Lis boards are just as solid and dynamic as any quad I've ridden.
Bottom line: Different strokes for different folks, and waves. If you are riding a lot of average beachbreak go quad. If you want to retain the longboard feel go keel. Definitely try to borrow some boards and give both setups a run through.
Good Luck!
I ride fishes year round until the surf gets too big and heaving. I dig them and am building a keeled fish right now. All are homemade,and nobody will ever mistake me for one of the Malloy brothers so takes this for what it’s worth. All have a more traditional template. Fishes are easy to ride frontside and backside. Nice stable platform and they get up to planing speed quick. I ride two with the Pavel quads. The quads make the board a bit more manueverable and user friendly in marginal surf(good surf,too). My keeled fishes have more drive and down the line speed, however. In clean lined up surf, ie point surf, I prefer the keeled fish. For less organized surf I’ll ride one of the quads. If I was to buy something from a professional shaper that was not tradional in feel I would probably take oneula’s advice and order a Griffin. His boards are beautiful and he seems to be a “stand up guy” and not a flake. I don’t know anything about the Bing fishes or Zippi fishes although I have a set of Zippi fish keel fins that are fricken wicked. What I’m wondering is why nobody has recommended building your own boards and begin your own journey of board discovery. Mike
I’m no pro or beach bum but to put things in perspective this is my reference point when I talk about the importance of how much Greg’s design stands out.
half of my quiver in the very early 70’s before I left for Seattle to become an oceanographer
The fish below went through at least a dozen test fin permutations
Current day
about 30% of my quiver mostly the alternate stuff
Griffin, Firewire, Parmenter Malolo (flying fish)
Alexander Gemini, early 90’s Bushman RocketFish
Mid 90’s George Ku C5 Rocket
Keone Downing DaSlipah Fish
Mandala Quad
The infamous Rex Manta
Horan Replica with Winged Keel
A bunch of twins incluuding a Griffin state of the art twin
So after all this trial and tribulations experimenting with all these options
Which ones came out on top in my books for unlimited speed and control?
The Alexander Gemini and this board below (Which happens to be just one of the magic wands he can pull out his bag)
That twin of his although too small for my fat butt was special too…
Again I’m no pro just been riding these things in all kinds of conditions and permutations since 68. I’ve had my jaw dropping moments on alot of good craft but this Griffin is the only design that that has been consistantly mind blowing every single time not just in those special moments. It’s one of the few boards that truly makes me a better surfer than I really am.
You don’t have to believe me, I had to watch it from the lineup for a year or so before I got the courage to ask Greg to make me one. But once I rode it I knew and everyone one of my friends who’ve tried it have had the same experience. Its the real deal. An unrelenquishing commitment to design board-rider-fin wins hands down everytime.
I don’t think I’m the only one who understands this now
and sometimes selfishly I wish I was
The fish designs I have owned have been a twin keel channel islands “classic” fish (foam carried all the way to the rail); Scott Anderson Physh 4 fin with double wing pulled in tail; I enjoyed both boards, but the twin keel did surf more difficult backside than the Anderson quad
I currently own a 6’2 Griffin 4/5 fin HP fish in pu/pe with FCS plugs and Gregs custom hand foiled fins, and Greg makes hte tabs slightly shorter so you have up to an 1/8th adjustment on his fins forward and back; 4/5 fin -meaning I have the fins for both the 5-fin set up and the quad set up, I have only recently received the board but surfed the Bertha swell here entirely on this board with the 5-fin set up - the board literally (I know it sounds like b.s. and is a bold statement) will allow me to do manuevers without even thinking about making them, I just visualize, go for it, and make it
I also own a 6’0 Hynson Black Knight Quad in XTR with Lokbox and using the Lb1/Lb4 set up with “honeycomb” constructed fins…I’m not sure of the name of the actual construction method of the fins, I also have the BKQ template fins but have not had time to try them out, they are slightly smaller area than hte lb1/4’s
My personal opinion is that these two boards above are the top of the rung for “hybrid fish”… again only my opinion, and there are many other fish designs I covet, admire and respect, DK (DJ Kane) being one; many might look at them and say they are not even fish, makes no diff to me, they take my surfing to whole new levels, thats what matters to me
I live in N FL east coast am 215 lbs and 6’0, heavy on my feet; waves rarely get above head high + 2 ft; like to consider myself more into big carves, tube rides, flowing/power type of surfing, no airs; I typically surf these two boards, but i have 5 others, not fish, a single fin (Spacecake in EPS), 3 quads (all Stretch in diff shapes/sizes in EPS) and a twin fin a la MR type (Jim Dunlop/Mystic surfboards in jax beach fl in pu/pe), and I attempt to rotate thru my boards just to keep me sharp
My opinion/experience is that the CI classic twin keel has its place, surfs very well, but does want to go in a straight line, its controlled chaos with all the speed the twin keels produce; the Anderson quad surfs up and down much better, holds in backside easier, still very fast but even it still has the “must break it out of its track” feeling. jsut to a lesser degree than a twin keel
The Griffin does everything a shortboard does and more, with the benefits of fish characteristics like early entry, extra float, surf like a bat outta hell on waist high+ waves, straight up lip bashes, buckets of spray, holding power like no other, i cannot get the tail to slip at all, the bottom turns are almost cartoonish… the board carves thru water like the cartoon drawings I made on my notebooks in middle school… I have visions of Griffin the artist’s cartoon eyeball with flames coming off of it when I do bottom turns on this board… sorry its so “overboard” but its a good/accurate description
The Hynson does the same but in a different manner, it has much more nose area than the Griffin and the bottom contours are completely different, the XTR feels completly different, still a board that blows my mind on a regular basis, but I’ll stick with describing and gushing on the Griffin since this was your question…
The Griffin is completely flat on the bottom, never seen this before, ever… utterly flat from nose to tail with a hard edge running the same length
I’ll write more on both, not trying to jack this thread, I figure we’re discussing fish so it is relevant, but off to work. Oh, I’m one of the converts oneula (I always enjoy your posts here and at the erbb oneula, great quiver btw, very “varied”) speaks of over at surfermag message board, I’m happy to “spread the infection”… surfers need to be exposed to what Griffin is doing, what his designs/fins are capable of, end of story.
I cannot beleive that Griffin does not have a top 44 rider on his boards, to think what this level of surfer could do on his designs, it might very well be the second coming of Curren/Carroll/Occy/Slater all wrapped up in one surfer… endorsement over.
That’s a great endorsement of the Griffin. Is that his Modern Fish model?
the one I am speaking of is called the “Modern Fish” on his website at the very bottom of the left hand column on his site - I hear it referred to as the “HP Fish” in conversation a lot as well - HP = “High Performance” - they are one and the same imo
he has others that look for traditional and are called “4 fin fish” and “5 fin fish” on the same column, but when discussing my shape with Greg he indicated he is most likely going to let these models “go by the way side” or stop making them… not his exact words but you get my point i am sure.
I think it would be pretty safe to start out with a classic twin. They really do have their place in any quiver, so I woudn’t regret it. Also, I could make my own journey through time, starting on the classic template, then gradually progressing through the various stages in fish development.
I’ve been fantasizing about shaping my own but have absolutely no place to do it. Once I do though I will be looking for mentors!
I wonder if templates can be found easily…
Aloha Oneula,
Looks like you’ve riddin a whole bunch of different Twin Fins. Have you ever ridden an Akila Aipa Twin Fin? I hear they’re real sweet and Rastovich seems to be hooked on them.
Just wondering how Akila’s compare to other twins in terms of performance.
~Brian