I’m trying to make up my mind between a Zippi Fish and a more classic template like a Bing twin fin.
The Zippi is noticeably curvier with less parallel rails than the Bing, or other more “retro” looking fish like the Broms.
Would the Bing be harder to ride backside? Would it spin out more easily? Do the parallel rails make the board more stable at speed?
I’ve never ridden a fish before and I’m not sure weather to go for the more classic fish, which I’m leaning towards, or to get a more modern template like the zippi.
Look into a Josh Hall fish / simmons quad if your not totally sold on a twinnie. I’ve heard nothing but good about the Zippy though and I’ve ridden one of Matts Bing keels and was underwhelmed - by the board, the guy is one of the nicest guys around. Keels are a fickle mistress on an average wave especially back-hand, that flat turning arc and heel side rail hook-up (compress and extend motion) can give you fits back-hand. I find it hard to keep my stance narrow and front foot weighted on all but the best left. My J HALL is the funnest ride I’ve had and works every time I paddle it out. The simmons single to double really gives the thing a throttle feeling - like climbing up through the gears and the quad set works from the tail without loosing speed or the ability to surf in the Hynd line with a closed stance if you choose. I think I recall hearing that the Thruster was born of the twinfins backside limitations, if so that would still be the case. Now I really wanna go surfing.
The Bob Simmons connection is via Skip Frye to Josh Hall and relates to the single concave into double concave out the back. A Simmons innovation from the Windansea area in the late 40’s and early 50’s. The benefits to the bottom contour are widely reported and though they have been used on everything from bonzers by the Campbells, to contemporary thrusters, I can really feel the drive though from the rails, bottom and fins on the fish design and in particular Josh’s longer fishes. The go-to-guy in all things Simmons would be Richard Kenvin and his pending work “Hydrodynamica.” I don’t shape so with regards to details I’m outta my element here but I can vouch for the contours ability to light a fire under your ass and link-up a section with minimal effort. Josh will use some vee in addition which I think helps back-hand. There are so many guys in this part of town who have used this innovation; Mabile,Mc Nabb, Pavel, mitsven et al I don’t want to slight any of them and sound as though I’m writing Ad copy for Josh Hall Surfboards. Another option and maybe an intermediate step between a keel and quad fish would be the twinzer config. I had one from Gary Mc Nabb that went like a bat outta hell.
Sorry miijknahs, I’m a newbie as you can see so to answer your question the board is a true fish with a wide swallow. I have ridden one of the mini simmons “pocket calculators” though and they’re really fun, it’s like skating a pool on a wide deck with wide trucks, and for something only 5’ 3" they really paddle. Good time to be a surfer, good times.
ah… for every opinion, there is an equal and opposite opinion from another surfer or another shaper. Don’t rule something out unless/until you’ve tried it yourself. Traditional fish go just fine backside, if you’re a decent surfer. In my opinion it helps if you come from a longboard background because that means you already know how to move your feet – I think a lot of shortboard guys have a hard time on fish because they put their back foot in one place and leave it there.
I would disagree. Yes fishes do work backside as does a barn door or a toilet seat under the feet of Rasta, Rob, or Malloy. The guy is new to the fish. I however am not. I ride logs mostly and have for nearly 20 of the 30 years I’ve been surfing. This may be the first time I actually know what I’m talking about and I gotta tell ya, as a lover of all fishes (I own 2 keels, a Christianson and a Pavel) the truth is a quad is more fun on an average left surfed by an average guy. Lis is now running 4, Toby will also back me up as well I’m pretty sure. As for moving your feet, your right, you gotta move your feet.
I would disagree. Yes fishes do work backside as does a barn door or a toilet seat under the feet of Rasta, Rob, or Malloy. The guy is new to the fish. I however am not. I ride logs mostly and have for nearly 20 of the 30 years I've been surfing. This may be the first time I actually know what I'm talking about and I gotta tell ya, as a lover of all fishes (I own 2 keels, a Christianson and a Pavel) the truth is a quad is more fun on an average left surfed by an average guy. Lis is now running 4, Toby will also back me up as well I'm pretty sure. As for moving your feet, your right, you gotta move your feet.
I don’t doubt what you say. In fact I’ve often thought about how we spend too much time watching people like Rob on CI Fish doing things I’l never do.
But what about the zippifish phenomenon,
Perhaps it’s just the template with a tighter tail and more curves, rather than fins.
Then again more fins would logically mean more hold and drive, right?
Can’t speak to the Zippi phenom having never ridden one but again, have heard people rave. If your able to test pilot take advantage and do it. Lots of folks dismiss the longer fish, the keel, the quad and so on. As a rule, the guy in the water going fastest is the one having the most fun so keep in mind the boards ability to generate speed and work from there, you’ll get on one that will haul ass and your sold. No mater what you get, tell the haters to eat a bowl of dicks.
Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but, doesn’t Zippi make a quad fish? I swear that the boards he had at the AB3 in Cardiff were quads. Very nice boards!
BTW- I prefer my quad fish (Speed Dialer setup) over my twin keel fish as well. The quad paddles just as well and seems lightning fast in comparison. It’s much more compatible to a wider variety of waves. And yes, backside is a little trickier on the twin keel.
I would disagree. Yes fishes do work backside as does a barn door or a toilet seat under the feet of Rasta, Rob, or Malloy. The guy is new to the fish. I however am not. I ride logs mostly and have for nearly 20 of the 30 years I’ve been surfing. This may be the first time I actually know what I’m talking about and I gotta tell ya, as a lover of all fishes (I own 2 keels, a Christianson and a Pavel) the truth is a quad is more fun on an average left surfed by an average guy. Lis is now running 4, Toby will also back me up as well I’m pretty sure. As for moving your feet, your right, you gotta move your feet.
Quads are different than keels. You have that right, but it doesn’t mean that keels don’t work backside. They, quads, go more vertical, come off the top better, work better in beach break, but in terms of how they work frontside vs. backside that is up to the rider.
I know that they guys you mentioned don’t believe in the “keels don’t work backside” myth.
I’m no pro surfer and I’ll never be one. But, I have no trouble going backside on a keel fish.
I make my own 2, 3, 4 fin fish and I find that the fastest down the line is the keel fin twin, while the 3 & 4 fin versions turn faster. It’s all good. I love riding all kinds of surfboards.
Just don’t let any one tell you that you have to be joe pro rasta dude to ride a traditional fish backside (or that they are slow)… that is all.
A cuvier outline will be more maneuverable, easier to get vertical and easier to go backside. If you take a parallel outline like Pavel/Lis/Fry (stiff and drivey) and you want to make it more maneuverable, easier to get vertical and easier to go backside, tack 4 fins on it.
The curvier outline also pulls the tail in and allows you to get away with a frozen back foot. Parallel outline=wider tail which means you gotta slide your back foot around.