If you have a closer look at Rasta’s fishes , you will get some insight into why they handle juice…D.V.S. rocket-fish is a hp Hydro-hull bottom… not your average fish.
…I think most of you still are locked to the retro fish; like the original thrusters, they are enhanced some aspects. Check the modern fish thread, to read about design and see photos by MD, and others.
here s a modern fish:
a blast to ride; but I m partially with LeeD about the conditions that fish design excels.
Well…3.5 works and 3.2 doesn’t! It’s basically the ol’ “longer and narrower is better in big waves than shorter and wider.” Both boards have very similar rockers and have some roll in the bottom so comparing the outlines is valid. If you wanted to fool with statistics and ratios, it might be better to look at Length vs.Tail Width. Boards are out on loan so I can’t check that for you. For the computer nerds with cad apps, Area to Length might be a pretty interesting analysis…
Remember back in the days of yore...like 1973?
Guys riding 1.5 overhead Hanalei and also Honolua on 5' long, 22" wide bunker boards with square tails, twin and single fins.
A good surfer dedicated to that wierd EQ can make it work.
My Lee V ratios vary between 3.1 to 3.24. Must be lacking the good surfer variable mentioned by LeeD… I’ve thinned out the foils on a couple of mine inspired by the modern fish thread. Outlines stayed pretty much the same. I found they were more sensitive and manouverable, but the compromise was down the line drive. I gave them away. Mike
been riding these things for over 40 years when I cut the tail off a trashcan salvage and made my first in the early 70’s even made my own plywood fins. My first Fish circa 1971-1972
Since then I’ve ridden tri-fin versions, twin versions, quad versions and 5 fin versions and they get better and better but still have their weaknesses. in the end its different stroke for different folks
...they (the modern fish and the rocket fish) are more intended (its have more rocker too) to get the speed turning faster and working the curl to gain that lose speed if you only let the board down the line.
Tow boards and kiteboards are re-writing the rules. When a on a faster wave, much less of the board is planing. So I think you really have to start taking traditional nose-to-tail length out of the equation in terms of performance. For paddling and wave catching, I get it.
That’s why… I think… tail surface area is critical. Maybe I’d take your “length vs. tail width” theory and suggest, “width vs tail width,” since I think you really have to shift your thinking from nose-to-tail “length” to “from widepoint back” length, then factor in surface area.
Well, since my definition of surfing is paddling into a wave, I have to consider flotation as an important design aspect. I’m also 61 yrs old so it’s nice to get in a little early. The only problem with using my 6’4" in bigger waves is the inability to catch a wave. I have a couple of 6’10" in the rack that will be attempts to extend the range of my fishing to over DOH.
I don’t really use those ratios. It was an interesting mind experiment. Now I’ll have to measure all my boards now to see if there is any merit to it…
funny timing this thread…
been making all sorts of varied surfcraft over the years, but after spending a few weeks with only one board to ride, it totally rekindled my love of the fish. So much has come and gone, but these things are supremely function for my kind of surfing - which may be more lateral than the ASP standard, but no less (intention of) power application. It’s been a while since I made myself a standard fish, but have to say I’m frothing over them again… here’s the evolution of my own FWIW…
Royal,
Is the refinement of your design moving away from the incuts?
pico -
No, the incut/sidecut is still by far the most versatile of the fish concepts I have tried.
It’s mostly that I haven’t had a traditional fish for so long that I forgot how much fun they can be.
I think it’s the combination of rails, fins and tail that will hold into the face.
Also, a really good surfer can ride just about anything and make it look good. The area I always find questionable is the hard turns. When I see someone grabbing a rail to be able to make a turn, I think the board is too short and wide, the board is too loose for the wave being ridden.
Just the way I see it.
Interesting. My 6’4" is somewhere in between the 3.2-3.5 ratios you mentioned. Note they are roughly double the “divine proportion” achieved with extending the Fibonacci sequence (1.6), but that’s more an aesthetic issue. On the other hand, so much of surfboard design is speculative or intuitive, you could conclude that it’s all about aesthetics of one sort or another…
My question is why would you want to ride a fish in double OH? I did it mostly because I only take one board with me when I go to surf. Once I paddled out in the dark on a 6’2 fish and when I got out to the break I realized it was almost unrideable. When waves get too big they also get thick and it’s hard to get into them before they jump up vertical. I got 3 rides in 3 hours during those kinds of days. Guys on longer boards were getting in early and having great rides. Every wave I got was an air drop into the pit and you either make it or eat it heavy. On ones you make you have to deal with the wider tail which is fast and loose, but too loose for the power you’re riding. Now you are having to manage the extra short turning radius and extra speed. Shorter is great in big waves, but narrower is also important. I think the modern short board is designed for that kind of wave, then the semi-guns and guns fill in for longer boards. I don’t see an advantage of a long fish. I think I’d rather have a high performance longboard.
OH tubes and a fish would be OK, but after that I agree with LeeV… I want to get in early. Single fins with rounded pins over 7’ are my go to at that size. The older we get the longer it takes to get up and our feet planted just right. I want to have fun.
Agreed, and I try to bring more than one board every time I’m unsure of what’s there. Most of the time, however, if I’m not on my fish, I wish I was. I have a 7’10" pin for very big days, to get in early, but nothing between 6’9" (my longest conventional shape otherwise) and 7’10". I remember Rastovich, in response to being asked if he could only have one board from then on, what it would be and he replied that a 7’10" round pin would be his choice. (and yeah, I know he could ride a toilet seat in Indo if he wanted).
I’m with sharkcountry on surfing one in DOH. Unless you are just trying to push the envelope. I’m getting older, too. Had a couple of injuries that come back with age. That being said I love looking at them, building them, and mostly surfing them. Fast, zippy, head high waves and I’m on the fish. Automatic. I like it so much that I have to be disciplined on what I eat and drink and watch the weight so I can keep riding them. That’s a healthy thing, in general. They get up to planing speed really fast which is a good thing as my reflexes slow down.
Killer quiver Royal. I like the one on the bottom best and would like a better look at the one at the top.
The fish I currently ride looks like the one in this thread. Mine is 6’ and just a bit over 20" wide. If you have a chance to ride one of these, you should. You will either all in love and have to get one, or it’s not for you. It will work in anything I can catch. Goes like a rocket, can hold the turn on any wave and then accelerate out of the turn. It will also plane across flat waves like you wouldn’t believe.
I also have a 6-5 Mod fish, but I like the original better. Mine is number 0004 my brother’s is 0002. This 5fin setup is great for fish tails.
What size of single fin would you ride at something like this:
mako224 posted this photo on a previous thread.
About 10 years ago I used to ride a 7’6" x 18 1/4" thruster roundpin mini gun at the exact same spot at around that size (I was in my 20’s and in top shape). In the last 5 years I have surfed it a couple of times on a 9’ longboard and the wide nose was a pain in the ass because of the offshore winds and would cause me to eat the drop and get my ass handed to me more often than not. I have a relatively new 10’6" single fin gun which I have surfed at a similar spot, catches them way too easy but I think I might have gone overkill on that board. You mentioned single fin semi guns and guns and I am interested in learning more about those. I am thinking a 7’10" 70’s gun for that wave would be about perfect, am I right.
Back on topic, when I was a kid there was a guy who rode this spot and Tres Palmas at an even larger size on what if I am not mistaken was a 5’6" keel fish, he would carve almost upside down under the pocket… of course he did it kneeling down…
when the waves get bigger, think natural design progression for the 2 fin crowd is to streamline the fish, which is what Mark Richards did with his Super Twin. Was enjoying really good DOH Sunset in later 90’s when MR paddled out on a 6’6" Super Twin and put on a friggin show, blew everyone away with his huge carves off the bottom and snaps under the lip, barrels through the inside. Chatted with him later on the beach, checked out his board, said it was the best he had ever shaped, ever rode.They played the footage of that session on H3O for a week straight. He did a couple more days out there, then his back went out like it was prone to do at that point in his life, and home he went…
