flexspoons and mats - physical demands

General Discussion
1

i was reading carl olsen’s thread about his flexspoon, and noted his comments about the demands of riding them.

I wonder if it can be any more strenous than mats. I’ve spoke to flexspoon about it – and his comments are that you are always underwater swimming with something that doesn’t float. however with mat riding, you sure can take a lickin while getting caught inside and trying to duck underwaves. That, and the fact that when kicking a mat the mat will always be in a ‘nose-up’ position, and thereby pushing water…slow kicking, even with my udt fins.

Just being able to duck-dive so well on flexspoon (only as i’ve heard) woudl be a tremendous energy-saving advantage i would think.

i’m an avid swimmer - i do 2 kms non-stop at least 3 times a week – and after a couple hours of matting in decent waves, you can pick me up in a spoon (no pun intended) and pour me back into my truck to go home. ( i’ve been riding mats regularly since I got my Neumatic in Dec05 - now when i ride a regular board I hardly break a sweat)

How much more physically demanding can those flxspoons be?

2

hey #man,

yeah thanks for this thread…i was thinking bout this last night. no jokes please…

i am going to have some down time in the next few months, and was going to build one spoon to try out. more of a velo style for at least some float…

i am concerned about the demands because the reefs where i would be using it are a bit sharp, with some nasty currents at times. i don’t mind a good workout, but getting worked over, well that’s another story…

i know that spoons are more work, but how much more?

maybe this is all relative?

3

Nativeson: you ride surfmats?

just got done swimming in the pool - alway after my swims I don the UDTs for about 200 mts. it’s been about 10 days since i rode my mat or used my udt fins – and only lap 3 (of 4) i got a nice lil cramp in my calf. (when i’m mat riding, that’s usually when I have to come in)

4

"Nativeson: you ride surfmats? "

not as a rule, they aren’t available in brazil(at least not down here…) but am game for anything… even tried a thin inflatable pool mat once(didn’t last to long;))

i have been getting more interested in spoons for a while now.

5

A few years ago George Greenough told me part of the reason he didn’t ride spoons anymore was that they required too much effort vs. the number of waves ridden… “It isn’t easy swimming a spoon around underwater all the time!”

At age 64, he mat surfs almost every day for several hours, sometimes twice, no matter what. He’s still able to go out 20 of 30 days in challenging conditions. As for surf mats and paddling, George’s advice: use low inflation, frequent water time and simply, “learn to use every little ripple.”

Personally speaking… until injuries began catching up with me after age 40, it was not uncommon to surf 4 to 6+ hours, paddling 90% of the time. In exceptional conditions I’ve surfed twice a day, 5 to 6 hours each session.

6

Definitely low inflation of mat will help duck diving. I can get under head high surf no problem. Dale’s mats don’t take much air total to fully inflate. Could always swim out w/ empty bag under your arm and duck dive like a spoon, then puff it up once out the back.

7

i ride both. the flex spoon is more demanding but yes the duckdiving is a definate advantage! the air mattress can be hard to get out on bigger days but wave catching ability is wonderful!

two very interesting (and fun) surfboard designs.

good flippers are the ticket

8

having ridden both a spoon is WAY more work.duckdiving a mat, for me anyway, isn’t that big a deal. i know on a big day i’d much rather be on a mat than a spoon. i know some people swim out with their mat rolled up, then inflate once they have swam out into the lineup.

9

is it that when you get out to the lineup on a flxspoon y’re still swimming and treading water? (whereas on a mat out in the lineup you float and can relax) or is it that it’s just plain more difficult kicking around on a spoon - duckdiving, paddling efficiency, catching waves?

My hat’s off to you guys who spend 4-5 hrs in the water in decent size waves on those flexys!

10

Just ordered my mat from Dale so I can’t yet answer the question as to which is more physically demanding. Will be fun finding out!

It is all in your perspective. I grew up with a world famous swim coach father, was in the water before I was walking, and

was a competitive swimmer thru high school(till surfing took over). When I moved from plywood belly-boards and kneeboards

to spoons the physical demands were actually a little less. And surfing Rincon from dawn till dark was certainly easier than

training under my father! Literally surfing all day was a day off compared to the workouts.

Ignorance is bliss! I just don’t know any better. It is easy for me.

Since I never rode foam I’ll say based on observation that for someone moving from foam kneeboard or surfboard the physical

demands of paddling/riding a spoon may be shocking. I don’t often see surfers panting and gasping for breath after paddling

out so it sure looks easier on a foam board. Part of the fun, joy and adventure of riding a spoon is the physical nature of it.

It appears that most people think they want/need larger fins(on their feet) for more thrust while

paddling and taking off. I have found just the opposite. To be able to kick with fins for hours and hours with a high KPM(kicks

per minute) you want smaller(relatively) fins. also to avoid cramps which tend to happen right at critical moments. It comes down

to long periods of endurance kicking mixed with a few moments of quick maneuvering/sprinting. You may think larger fins will help

with the endurance(long distance) kicking but they will kill you when it comes to the quick maneuvering/sprinting(catching waves).

So the compromise is to give up a little speed/thrust for paddling and gain quickness and maneuverability to catch waves plus stay

out in the water a lot longer.

DELICIOUSLY PHYSICAL - that’s why you feel so good afterward.

11

Ignorance is bliss until you notice you’re being passed by guys wearing Duckfeet or UDT fins! You’re kicking and splashing along in 3rd gear and they’re cruising with deep power in 5th. The difference in performance between small swim fins like Churchills and Greg Deets UDT (with more than enough speed and maneuverability) is like night and day.

12

flexspoon: You’re a swimmer, so and you have been all your life so you’re used to the high beat kick.

I also swim competitivley, but I’d rather use churchills than tiny training fins, but probally because I’m not much of a kicker and can’t flutter kick to save my life, but from someone who hasn’t allways been swimming would rather have more power than reppitition.

13

Efficient paddling skills usually require faster and slower rhythms, deeper and shallower kicking. For surfing, a reasonably fast and steady average “motoring speed” is essential.

It’s simple: powerful swim fins translate to more horsepower and more waves. Physical conditioning plays a large part in determining how much water time, how quick and maneuverable, etc. But there is a point of diminishing returns when kicking harder and faster with swim fins that are simply too small or flexible.

The ultimate solution is better fitting fins to transfer power, fins with a high level of resiliency, efficient fin design, more powerful fins.

The only way to fully explore the wave-catching ability of flexspoons, and especially surf mats, is through maximum paddling power and proper technique.