Does anyone use a theory, or measurement system to position their flyers in relation to fins ?..Ive seen them forward on some boards and set behind the line of the toe-in on others…any theories would be interesting to hear…
Flyers reduce the tail area. Similar results can be achived by altering a continous outline to similar area distribution in the planshape, however it may result in an ungodly ugly outline. The flyers should go infront of your back foot such that weighting your front foot takes advantage of the larger area in front of the flyers for trim speed and weighting you back foot takes advantage of the reduced area for quicker turns and stalls. This is all in theory of course.
What are flyers? I’m not familiar with the term, as it relates to surfboards or fins.
MR put his flyers behind the trailing edge of his side fins so that’s what I copied. I’m probably wrong about it, but I always thought of bumps, wings, flyers and e-wings as control points to pivot off of, so best at or in front of your rear foot. Behind the trailing edges of the side fins always struck me as being more right than right at the mid-point of the fin base.
Aipa’s stingers obviously moves that point way forward, apparently about halfway between your front and rear foot placement, but I’ve never surfed one so I don’t know how I’d feel about swapping the drive I’d normally have there with the unbroken rail line for a control point instead.
I’m sure you’d be familiar Bill…just have a different term for them.
Gdaddy , that’s how ive done them , but Ive only done a few…doing a 5’4" shortboard , with a small fish tail at the moment and the flyers are positioned in the line of toe-in , mainly because it allowed the 18" width to work better with the 13" tail…however , they have been a popular feature used on single fins for a long time , so theoreticaly , they have been used other than in conjunction with a particular fin cluster , and it would be interesting to hear peoples reasons why , and the theory behind it…thanks for your input.
You’re right. We seem to be to be two people separated by a common language.
What is their effect on a single fin?
More pivotal style surfing?
Well, Bill???
Where do U put em on a modern 3 fin board?
We 2 do also speak two of the same Australian, American, Hawaiian lingo…Oh wait…Thats free, phree, fuk it, 3 variations of English… Shit, i’m confuserd now… It don’t take much (to confuse me) oh well!
:0
I can only comment on a single fin board I had years ago…it was a 6’6" rounded pin shaped by Brad Mayes…it had neat fluted flyers positioned about 14" up from the tail - the flutes were about 4" long and exited at the flyer around 1/4" deep - they were pretty much on the same line as modern day toe-in for rail fins…that board had a very tight turning arc when the tail was buried at speed.
Hi kaya,
I have always been cursed with having to find a ‘reason in a rhyme’.
As I posted on your thread I feel obliged to contribute in some way.
What I have found best (for my surfboards) is as followed. I don’t go through this process for every time I need to shape a Flyer/Wing/Cut in, shape the tail outline, Its just kind of happened to add up.
Lay the fin over
Blend in a arc/circle to the fin
Find center of circle
Thats where I cut in the Flyer, hahaha.
Sounds like a crock off shit, I know…
My back foot is basically in the center on the circle.
Also if you continue a line off the side fin it meets the point where the new rail outline starts.
…What I do these days is draw a line from the side fin and cut in to meet that line, Easier.
Just Not as colorful of a reply 
As you know most boards have a hard edge on the
rails in the tail that gradually softens in the rails towards the nose.
Frequently this edge ramains pretty hard until in front of the fins and
the transition to no edge is gradual.
There’s an (old) idea that, instead of gradual transition of the rail
edge it can be discontinued at a single point and the rails changed to
non-edge down rails.
The idea is that the transition point acts as a pivot point or change of
area and so might replace flyers (changes in the plane shape).
Does anyone remember this idea? Why did people stop using it?
I think that Andrew’s idea of Fulcrum has some merit:
[quote] you can imagine that the sudden chnage in curve could act as a pivot point, depending on other design variables:, especially when coming off the top in a snap turn,... the apex of a vee might be another pivot point, as might a **flyer**, a step in the rocker, old fashioned tail lift ...... and certainly a fin. A fins rake means that the effect it has on pivot point varies during the turn.pivot point is probably the wrong description, as when everything is combined, it is, of course, more like an area.
eg in quads the size of the pivot area/fulcrum point varies on how close the fins are
the idea is to get everything happening in unity. One of the reasons
that some tris have such a small back fin is that the fins are too
seperated and the back fin is not working in unison with the front ones.
It is in fact a “rudder” rather than a driving point. This is an
example of the fulcrum area being too spread out…
Moving the outside fins
further back slightly and the back fin further forward will result in a
much drivier turn but still keeps the looseness. Increasing the rake of the front fins slightly
yet moving them forwards slightly will give a similar effect. ie adding
drive while keeping looseness.
the area and pivot ‘point’ will change depending on for example wether
the rider is leaning forward, or applying body torque. Because the
pressure points during the turn vary, we need a number of points to
press against, not just one. EG when we begin a turn we might lock in
the rail in front of the outside fins. But at th end of the turn we are
pushing hard on our back fins to get more rail out of the water in
prerperation for our next turn, or to compensate for change in the wave
shape.
Should we have for example a single fin with no rake (ie very upright)
then we won’t be able to change our weighting from front to back during
the turn. We would produce a very pivotty undrivey turn which would
feel GOOD WORD house.
It follows we need to be able to spread our pivot area or points out to
compesnate for our weight chnages and needs during the turn.
These pivot points can be tuned by using the edge of
the rail… Idea: hard edge gives crisper turn, (with possible sudden
release) soft edge gives more forgiving, easy, turn more prone to
gradual slide
why? possibly: because of the differences in meniscus tension at the
rail edge between the two designs, also differences in ability to bury
rail because of foam crossection
and it can also be tuned by using rail profile.
eg how easy is the rail buried at a certain point in relation to the
rail around it. How can we use this to mimic a board with a smaller rail
line and produce a more refined fulcrum area/point…
eg a blocky rail going into an easy to bury down rail without a gradual transition can produce a pivot point
some of these ideas were explored in the quintessential stinger…
eg radical change in planshape at the sting, change in rail profile at
the sting, change in bottom contour at the sting, utilisng the combined
fuclrum point of sting and fin by moving the single fin up to 18 inches
from the tail
other egs: kneeboard twinfin fish the pivot points are influenced by, among
other things, the fins placement and shape, the fishtail apexes, any
tail vee, the tail lift, the rail just in front of the fins. To get a
twinnie on its rail you might have to use the rail and the fins at the
expense of the other points… In standup fish you rarely see the board
its rail cause the rider doesn’t understand this and is using the fish
tail and the fins (which are usually too far back because it is a retro
board and that is why he/she is riding it) to work from… he usually
also has the disadvantage of having keel fins with minmial rake so that
his chance of locking in the front rail and actually getting the board
on the rail is also miminized - because his fulcrum area is concentrated
in his fishtail.
having no rake in the fins means that you also do not ‘lead’ the water
off the back of the fin. Means (among other things) that you need to
place the fins further back to get the same drive. Means that if you are
a kneelo with keel fins you probably grab the rail to turn cause your
board is so stiff, because your pivot area is concentrated in exactly
the wrong place for a kneelo and you cannot lean forward to properly
engage the rail, because this would be spreading out the fulcrum point
too far and creating drag (see rudder effect in tris)…
[/quote]
Lifted from http://www.ksusa.org/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=2341&highlight=flyer
Makes good sense to me Yorky…any thoughts on singles with flyers ?
Nope
The wing/ flier is where the water releases from the rail, afterwhich the rails hold on the wave is greatly reduced. An eight foot board with a wing one foot up from the tail has the effective rail length of a seven foot board.