I want to add some significant volume to an existing longboard template. I am 6’ 2” 220 lbs and feeling my age, and rarely get to the beach (550 mile drive to the gulf coast ). So I am looking to build a hollow wood board that fits my low level of fitness and skill and larger body. I have a template I like in AKU (the stock 50/50 log) current template is 3” thick at 80 liters. If I were to bump up the volume 15-20 liters, how would I distribute the volume?
I was going to add a 1/2” to the width and 1/2-3/4” to the thickness. When I add the 1/2” to the thickness, should I add the thickness throughout the length of the board. Or , as AKU does atomically, just add the 20%-or so throughout the foil
There are a few ways to do this and it can be difficult to know which is best for each board and surfer. Adding the thickness throughout the whole board is the easiest way to do it, but it can affect how it works such as adding more swing weight, etc. If you use AKU and manually adjust the thickness at areas under your chest while paddling and feet when surfing it may be the best way to do it, but if you change it too much it could look a little funny. Also, you could achieve more volume by raising the centerline of the board and having a dome deck without taking too much material off the side/rail area like traditional shortboards/mid-lengths would have.
So, kinda strange. When I first began fiddling with the volume in AKU, the nose and tail thickness adjusted with the center thickness. It was doing it on what appears to be a percentage basis. As in, if I increased center thickness 20% then nose and tail increase 20%. But your example shows center increase at 15% and nose and tail 10%. So my assumption must be based on coincidence. And now when I try to do the same thing, (changing the center from 3-3/12” nose and tail remain unchanged.
Maybe another way I could ask my question, is….if I bump the center up to 3 3/4” with a nose thickness of 2” and a tail of 1 7/16”. Would that be a well proportioned board that meets my target 100 liters? I probably wouldn’t be putting into anything over 4’ beach break. I just want something that catches waves easy in junk, with a little maneuverability (the reason for keeping shorter. (Feel free to tell me 3 3/4” is too thick
It seems that if the reason I am adding volume is to support my extra mass and height, then a proportional increase makes sense, but maybe I am not considering the physics and just giving the whole thing a lift would allow less thickness in the middle promoting thinner rails or less domed deck? But it might make the tail corky-er and the extra volume in the nose would only lend to better nose rides, which is not the priority? Thoughts
……I think I figured out why it didn’t adjust fully proportional across the board. When I adjusted the width by 1/2”, I also widened the nose and tail by 1/2”. That is probably why I had even percentage increases. But I am wondering if I am mixing theology by evenly increasing width and proportionately increasing thickness…just thinking out loud
As always, with surfboard building, there’s give and take. Adding more volume may affect the performance, however, with a board this size I don’t think it would change too much unless you disproportionately added too much volume to the nose or tail which would affect maneuverability. By making the board thicker, it will make the deck flatter since it is basically just drawing a line above that from nose to tail. Therefore, there would be more (proportionate) volume in the nose and tail. I took a look at the file and it already has a vee bottom which I would say would be important for a board like this. Since you talked of nose riding, the rocker of the nose is whats important to the ability of doing that and by adding volume to the board the amount of rocker and distribution of the rocker seems to be unchanged. If I had to guess, that’s probably what you’d want. Although the extra volume in the front may make it harder to turn, this would allow you to nose ride better. Widening the board would be a great way to increase paddling, planing ability, and speed so maybe think of how wide you’d like it to be, half an inch is not a lot when you think about it. The longboard is only 23 inches wide at the center, which is not a lot comparatively. I think you could get easily away with 1 inch wider (as long as you can still sit on it comfortably in the lineup). This will allow you to get more volume and make the board more stable. If you make it wider it could make it harder to turn, just like the same issue I said before, but if you make it wider and thicken it less, it could find the happy medium since you’d be able to sink the tail to turn, have less thicken for swing weight, and provide a more stable position to nose ride.
This is great! Thank you! So let’s see if I am following you correctly. And to preface, I’m not a great surfer. I get out about 1 week a year and I’m usually in junky beach break where the kids can play nearby. So I’m just looking for something that catches those junky waves that average 2-3’ really easy to compensate for my out of shape’d-ness and unrefined skills.
So you’re saying that more volume in the nose may reduce turning ability (through swing weight or buoyancy?) but could improve nose riding (a low priority as these waves are so short lived) through increased buoyancy. So by only increasing the nose volume by the same percentage/proportion as the middle might be the way to go, as I prefer turning over nose riding?
And the same pretty much applies to the tail, so I can sink the tail well for turning?
And adding the 1/2” throughout gives me more volume and planning surface throughout?
So, if I make the middle 3 3/4” thick, widen the middle nose and tail each 1/2” (I used to have a 24” wide board and I always wished it was a touch narrower(it’s probably all in my head)), that gives me a volume of 99 ish liters to catch lots of easy waves, but I maintain the turning ability by only increasing nose and tail volume proportionately? Is that a true statement?
I can’t even find the Aku or Shape3D or Rhino3D file I used to start it, but apparently I liked it enough to make templates and cut it with the hot wire.
I am not saying it’s well-thought out or a beauty, just offering it up as part of this discussion, which I will be following with interest.
Yes, swing weight is the basically how heavy the board feels in front of your feet, leading to easier or harder turns from the force needed. Think of when longboarders do a hard bottom turn, that is when it will be the most apparent. And yes, the increased buoyancy can help with nose riding as long as the rocker stays relatively unchanged since the curvature is what keeps you from nose diving while doing that. Sounds like your alterations with adding 1/2" to width and 3/4" to thickness will give you the best of both worlds. Good luck shaping! Nothing is better than catching a wave with a board you made.
Thank you so much for your help. I’ve made a few boards over the years, and I have done enough guessing and being unhappy with the turnout that I want all successive attempts to have a little more confidence in the design before I do the work. You have given me that. Thank you so much, again!
Jrandy, may I ask your body size? I am 6’ 2” and 215-220. It looks like the dimensions of your board are pretty similar other than the middle thickness which is roughly 3/8” thinner. If it is the lower image from your first post, the rocker would be a bit deeper than mine. And you are saying you’re pretty happy with the performance? If it is the lower image from your first post, the rocker would be a bit deeper than mine,
I have not completed the 9-6 board, I just cut that rocker into EPS and it is waiting for me to start. I need to finalize plan shape for sure since I (seem to have) lost the file.
We’re about the same height (I am 6’-3") and I do weigh more than you (embarased to say), with my stretch goal being to weigh about as much as you. I am envisioning this board to be better for skinny me.
It’d be interesting to hear more thoughts about what it’s like when a longboard’s displacement is close to/just above/just below the rider’s weight.
I have been fighting the weight/age relationship like stopping a glacier. The struggle is real, but I applaud your conviction!
I have dug around on the internet, and mind you I am more a source of questions than answers, but it seems like between charts and forum testimonies, us larger guys like boards between 70 and 120 liters. That’s a pretty big range!Which if you take the middle/average of that number it suggests a 1:1 ratio of liter to kilo. I have a 70 liter hplb and it’s great when I’m great, but mid-40’s desk job me is wanting something more forgiving of a sluggish crawl/pop-up. That is my basis for targeting the 100 liters in the discussion above.
I think this is what Lf_BoxerBoards was pointing to though, in that the conversation of “how much volume”inevitably requires the conversation of where to put that volume. Which inevitably lends the question, “how do you plan to use the board?”
So to your question, I used to have an 9’ 80 liter, what I might call a mini glider? low rocker and 60/40 rails 24” wide and I loved it in 4-5’ Oregon beach breaks but I wished it was a bit more floaty. (And again, I really don’t know what I’m talking about) but I think the 60/40 rails gave great hold in the steeper (not barreling by any means) faces but
I think having more float would have afforded more rocker and would have helped catch more waves with less effort and pearling. Just my two cents.
10-6 x 25 x 3 1/2 … should get you close to 100 liters , but in a more refined board… I can give you a 100 liter beach ball. but you wont catch waves on it… dont try and pack too much volume into a smaller board… I give you 2 comparisons… I have a 9-2’ x 24 1/2 x 3 3/8 , with full rails and a lot of meat into both the nose and tail… at 83 liters… then a 10’ x 24 1/2 x 3 3/8 but real thin rails, refined nose and tail… 85 liters… I cant even catch waves on the 9-2, then when im up, its just a giant cork… But the 10’ just glides in, i can walk and nose ride it… consider the overall size of the board, surface area matched to low speed low power waves… Way too many people get lost in volume… My current go to wave catching machine is 11-6 x 26 1/2 x 3 5/8 118 liters… but I am 130 kg unfortunately… I would shoot for close to body weight in liters, but go a size, where the board looks clean and refined.
Not a big thick boat…
Dont be mis-aligned by more float = thickness, you want more paddle power. You pick up paddle power with width, you make a board turn by more hips. make the board 24 wide, keep the thickness 3. Parallel rail template will net a fast but stiff surfboard. Look at the Bill Stewart Clydesdale surfboards. Living on the gulf you should maybe forget about the long board thing. Take a look that board. Also the semi hollow wooden board is going to add its own drawbacks. thick boxy rails (which I see on 99.9% of all HWSB), and a ton of weight is going to product a lack luster machine.
“Don’t try and pack too much volume into a smaller board.” So true! And any shaper who has tried to this for a customer knows the futility of trying to do so. What I am referring to here is when a customer comes to you and has seen a 6’2 you shaped and really likes it. But (and a huge but) he would like you to shape him a 5’8 “just like it” with more volume. The two boards will not even resemble each other. Next time tell him “If you like the 6’2, buy the 6’2. You won’t have to wait a month for a completely diffent board.” My refence point here is “hand shaped” not CNC’ed. I’m sure you could come closer using a computer to calculate. I didn’t do too bad for what I attempted. But never again.
Resinhead1, I like your beach ball analog. Thank you for the dimension suggestions.
OSS1, the point of the HWS is that I am not a shaper, nor have any foam etc, but I do woodwork and have the tools. I know there are trade offs. I see your point about the limitations of adding to a design to the point it becomes something else, like a beach ball. And I agree with your thoughts about HWS rails, I think folks shaping HWS are afraid of cutting too deep into the bottom of the rail. but I have a solution! I have made negative templates to check the rails for conformity at 10” intervals along the rail. Kinda like luthiers do with guitar necks.
). So I am looking to build a hollow wood board that fits my low level of fitness and skill and larger body. I have a template I like in AKU (the stock 50/50 log) current template is 3” thick at 80 liters. If I were to bump up the volume 15-20 liters, how would I distribute the volume?
