Hey guys. I have been kicking around some different foil ideas and would like some feedback from some different perpectives. I keep coming back to the thought that foil is nothing more than weight control! For both the surfer and the board. The super thin noses really take some weight out of the nose which in turn facillitates snappy off the tops. But too light and stylized flow can suffer and some surfers will appear jerky because the board is so nose sensitive. I prefer a bit more thickness in the nose than is “fashionable” at present. I like to feel the nose weight a bit to keep things smooth. Next the mid board foil’s only apparent function is to provide volume/flotation for the paddler. At speed most of the board is out of the water and planing. Bottom contour and outline curve would seem to have more effect on performance at this point. Foil does come a little more into play in the tail area since water is wrapping more here than elsewhere. In the barrel the inside rail will be flowing water almost 180 degrees around. Too thin of foil and coupled with a hard edge will be “Knifey”, too soft and drag comes into play. Our waves are slower than average so I have been builing in more volume in the tail to help with paddling and catching waves. I’m still using a pinched rail in the immediate tail rails so the water can flow nicely over them. I am combining this with a curvy outline and less fin toe-in. These ramblings are just my take on it. Would like to hear some other views. Craving technical discussion after all the “Political” posts of late. MLC
Hey Krokus, Interesting reading above. I am as well somewhat exhausted by the political focus of late. The word foil is probably the biggest mouth full one can bite off when it comes to a shaping discussion IMHO simply because the word speaks to all the ramifications of the final product. The one thing that I notice about board foils is that some shapers tend to make boards that stay down more in the water and others boards that ride higher in the water. There are a few versatile shapers around but they are few and far between. The first type of foil is more sensitive to the critical part of the wave and done well is absolutely amazing to ride, but with that said I must reveal that I’ve ridden boards that border on being submarines and don’t find them very stimulating at all. The second approach is a very lively and exciting one because of the acceleration and glide it gives unless the conditions are less than perfect. A little chop can make a high ridding board unmanageable rather quickly. So finding a good marriage of the two along with a balance of thickness and rail power together with good rocker entry and release are what great shapers are the champions of. I have the good fortune to know a few of these capable men who I hold in high esteem. It sure is grand to surf an excellent foil and quite and art to make one. Good Surfin’, Rich
Rich, Sorry, you are technically correct. Foil being reference to the finished shape. There is a happy medium in there somewhere. I guess I am really referring to thickness transition as it relates to foil. Thinner boards do have more feel but as one gets a bit older we must compromise a bit! Thanks for your view.MLC
this is all corect but the way I see it is it sounds like the ballence would be off a bit your right in the fact that having the nose light you can pull the nose around faster but the reson that I shape light noses is in realition to the wide point, for here in hb for exampel, boards need to be for the most part having the center point behind actual center now thats the thickes point also. so in foiling the board it should go from nose to tail nose being thinest at the nose and gradually getting thicker and then being thickest at your wide point (not actual center)but were you have place it (wether its forward or behind actual center)waves play a big part in this disicion if its mush place the widest point behind center this way when you get up your right over the sweet spot you can pump,carve,cut back and anything else without moving forward and then steping back to turn I think the jerking look that you see is when the shaper over shapes the nose( too thin )so to me the balence is off and not that is bad its just not proportional foil is just everthing in porportion when you acheive proportion its magic well hope that helps
I’m currently putting the wide point and zero rocker about 3" behind center. This is the point where the slight concave eases into the contour. Great speed and a bit of fulcrum effect. MLC
I agree with you krokus, the political stuff is immensely boring. In my recent experience, foil at the nose seems to have less impact on paddling than i would have expected but greater impact upon performance. I made two boards recently - both pretty much identical in outline and rocker but with different nose thickness - one super foiled the other quite thick. What surprised me was that there seemed to be no appreciable difference in paddling/wave catching but that the super foiled board seemed to have little drive. It must the the happy medium that we’re aiming for, as the thick noser has got loads of drive but feels very clunky when turning. It seems to me that tail thickness has greater impact on paddling/wave catching than nose thickness, but foil in the nose is critical to performace - drive and turning.
Krokus, your findings, are the same as mine and i’m sure the same as most people who frequent this site, now the trick is to not say that one foil is better than the next but to use the knowledge gained to find the best foil for ‘your’ needs and your customers personal requirements. I’ve always said to my self that if I can get an 80% success rate with other surfers besides myself, I will then have a business. Not that you want to stop at 80%, thats just a base, if you could work with the 80% on a consitent level (them re-ordering with feedback)then the success rate should go up into the ninties. If more surfers worked with competent shapers and took the time to learn “what does what” when they order a board THEIR success rate will be higher as well. Keep up the good work with design theories. KR http://groups.msn.com/MyKRSurf/krcomweb.msnw