French balsa comp...

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ahhh …

sorry for the confusion …

i went back to my email box and just presumed you were one in the same as i have emails passed on to me from nev …

Well I think both Pierrek and I emailed Nev !!!

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hopefully it wont be to long before you get a chance to try one …

once we sort out who will be selling them …

I’m really excited about trying one of these !

(let me know if you need a local contact to help you out finding partners)

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how long have you been doing xps with veneer over the top ???

ive had some interesting experiences with sandwich over xps , just wondered how you got around the problems , or are they still to surface ???

i could probably guess , that because you arent using resin or glass , you would have a decent thickness veneer which would add the needed stiffness to stop the xps failing in shear loads …

We’re just starting to build prototypes (that’s what we’ll use the prize money for). I’ll write a longer post later on today describing what we have in mind.

Pierre

Hi again, here’s a description of what our project is about :

Jeffrey Swartwood and I (Pierre Both) wanted to come up with a way to build eco-friendly boards that could be implemented by the regular local shapers.

I am a garage shaper (I work as a freelance webdesigner) and I’ve been shoked by the amount of non recyclable waste (foam, fiberglass, resin …) I produced when I built surfboards the traditionnal way. Not to mention, the air pollution (styrene, resin, dust …), the noise …

On the other side, Jeffrey was a pro shaper and decided to quit because it was threatening his health and that he non longer sees much future in building PU/polyester boards for a living (due to rising imports from asia and ever increasing succes of bic and surftech).

So our main motive is to come up with a better way to build surfboards from an environmental and health perspective.

We’ve both used different materials and technics and came with the following conclusions :


From an environmental point of view, the ideal surfboard would :


  • use renewable raw materials that would be produced locally and with little environmental harm ;

  • use a building process that optimizes the use of raw materials and furnitures (brushes, solvents …) thus producing little waste. The process would not generate dust or bad fumes and would allow to sort out and recycle the little waste it produces and use very little water and energy.

  • be strong, last longer and be recyclable once the board is dead.


As far as technical feasability is concerned, a new building process

would have to :


  • have a low initial investment cost (most shapers have a low investment capacity)

  • allow for a production cost identical or lower than the traditionnal building process (due to European market situation)

  • being quickly usable by local shapers without loosing the hard earned experience they’ve acquired in terms of designing boards and using a planer


From a marketing point of view (my former job was marketing consultant), a new board technology needs :


  • to offer no too many changes at a time and keep several parameters unchanged/identical in order to cope with a very conservative market (in our case, our focus will first be on the environmental aspect therefore we plan on producing boards that are designed, weight and perform very closely to trad. boards)

  • be aesthetically pleasant to the eyes of the targetted surfer

I know this a long post and there’s more to come …

If we wanted to build a truly eco-friendly surfboard we thought we had to just get rid of the fiberglass+resin solution and replace it with someting else since this is what creates the most environmental/waste/health problems.

We heard of some vegetal resins but, as of today these are not available locally and therefore are not an option for the local shaper.

Using epoxy with vacuum bagging and infusion is also a good way to reduce the amount of resin used but this takes a long time to master and we really wanted not to used any resin at all.

So we chose to use just plain wood veneer instead of fiberglass/resin. We don’t want any wood from endangered species cut from from forest that are blindly destroyed by exploited local labor force.

So we chose wood from trees that are locally grown and come from well managed forests (ash, beech).

Next comes the foam core … We though about vegetal foam (expanded cork …) but nothing is appropriate so far (it’s either not available locally or have the wrong dimensions or properties).

Hollow wood is not an option either : too much labor required and a pro shaper can’t use his experience (you’re no longer sculpting a board, you’re constructing it).

So what we have left is PU, EPS and XPS. From an environmental point of view polyurethane foam is out of the question. It is now even becoming illegal to manufacture blanks in europe due to environmental reasons… Plus, shaping a PU blank means producing a lot of foam dust, even with close tolerance blanks.

EPS is then what seems the best alternative since it is lightweight, has good shear movement properties, has memory…

But EPS has small open spaces between its closed-celled “bubbles” and that soaks water. This is OK if you laminate you board so that it’s fully waterproof and it’s even better if you use a sandwich skin (you then have very little risks of water reaching the foam). But, this would not work with a thin wood layer as the only way to isolate the foam from water contact …

Then comes XPS. XPS has often been presented as the miracle waterproof foam. I’ve tried it and after a while, like anyone else I had huge delams …

Until now we’ve built boards with the idea of a foam core that fears water and that we protect with a waterproof skin.

So we looked at it differently with the idea of using a blank that’s waterproof and a skin that might not necessarily be.

There comes the idea of XPS covered with wood veneer. The veneer is treated with a water based varnish that stops the water but lets the air go through. In case some water still go through and hit the foam, we’re safe since the foam is hydrophobic. On the other hand we expect to avoid the delam problems known to XPS since the skin is not air tight and lets the wood and the foam breethe.

So this is what we’re working on. So far, we’ve done a few panel tests and are about to build our first prototypes.

We work very closely with Atua Cores (Pierrek’s business of computer cut polystyrene blanks) as they’ve got some good knowledge and experience with polystyrene foam and vacuum bagging technics. Oh, and they do recycle all the waste/offcuts from the blanks. These are sent back to the local foam factory who puts them back in the producing process.

Bert, nice to see that you might have had a copy of our e-mail to Nev. I wish I were at the Eurosima event to see Surfburgers in real and meet Nev Hyman in person too, like PierreB did… I hope to have other opportunities soon maybe! Been out of the internet a few days because of elbow surgery, thanks Pierre (B) for clarifying the PierreB and PierreK mic mac.