Future Surfing Rules ?

Once upon a time surfing ability went a long way when it came to determining where your spot was in the lineup. If you were good enough you got waves even though some spots had some ’ Apex Predator ’ type surfers who dominated.

As it should be , following the laws of natural selection.

Got thinking about this after reading an article in Surfers Path where a surf journo Thor Johnson and his " North Shore Charger " girlfriend Kyoko led an entourage of surfers to a Philipino secret spot. Apparently they had a run in with some “die hard Aussies” surfers obviously keen to keep the place under wraps.

Allegations thrown around of intimidation etc.

Seems that instead of letting his surfing do the talking this Journo got some government officials (and if you know anything of Asia this is done by greasing palms) involved to remove said "die hard Aussies ".

Is this the future of surfing rules? Heard of cases here in Australia and Hawaii where Court orders have been made to keep surfers out of the line up.

Is this the way to go ?

Are surfers becoming sooks?

Cheers

Mooneemick

as far as i know this is typical behaviour

cloudbreak case in point

regarding sooks

not everyone wants to get in a fight man

ive got kids and wife that depend on my being able to feed and house them

that all depends on my hands

if my hands get damaged im on the street

it would be very selfish of me to engage in fighting

id rather get a restraining order from the court

if i had a problem

then the sh!thead couldnt surf where i am

that would be a good lesson in self control

not scared

just not stupid

wise words Silly

Quote:

not scared

just not stupid

you know, reading your posts, you really don’t live up to your

Sways handle at all… you seem to me to be pretty level headed

and thoughtful… hmmm

How many surfers in an “entourage”???

I live in a pretty highly localized area. A couple years back there were some altercations, then lawsuits and criminal charges…

Nothing’s really changed. You might be less likely to get popped in the face but at one infamous spot you probably won’t get waves alone and for sure no smiles or shakas. I think Nick Carroll did an article awhile back and visited all the worst localized spots in Cali and was only hassled at “the bay.” It’s anti aloha there.

As the competitive levels rise, the going gets tougher. It’s nearly impossible for Average Joe to get a wave at some spots during a swell. Stink-eye, bad vibes and fist fights are actually pretty common.

What’s ironic is that if the guy who is doing the vibing gets his ass kicked, he (or his parents) might be the first to file an assault and battery lawsuit. Keep in mind that at some rich kid locale maybe the parents have influence with the sheriff or DA.

Don’t know what a “Sook” is but it’s a litigious society in which we live. Can’t we just get along?

Hey llilibel03

According to the article there was 10 in the entourage.

Sorry about the localism at your spots luckily not something we have to contend with here.

Cheers

Mooneemick

Hey John

Sook is an Aussie term, along the lines of cry baby.

True what you say about irony and litigation.

Cheers

Mooneemick

Hey Silly

I was’nt suggesting fisticuffs and as far as the article went there was no violence mentioned just some vibing and shenanigans!

I prefer to let my surfing do the talking.

Cheers

Mooneemick

in my opinion this is nothing wrong with a small fist fight as long as you didn’t start it, its a fair fight, and you don’t send someone to the hospital. What is a major problem is when people take a small fight to serious and leaves and comes back with a weapon, such as a gun.

I always believe that fighting should be a last resort but if you feel threatened by all means fight, just don’t hospitalize someone or beat the pulp out of the guy.

when you surf try to be a calm person that gives waves and doesn’t drop in on anyone, after all surfing is about fun not who can get the most waves

  • logan

Hey llilibel03

Do you think Nick Carroll was hassled because he was a surfer or because he was a journalist ? The Surfer’s Path article led me to believe that the fact that it was a surf journo potentially exposing another spot that led to the conflict.

Like most articles you only get one side of a story.

Cheers

Mooneemick

once apon a time skiny

even fighting had a code of honour

this is when men where men

men that gave there lives defending our great free country.

people that hit someone when their back was turned or gave someone a low blow were to considered “COWARDS”

by even their own friends and family

id be happy to go a few rounds down the local boxing ring if someone felt the need to prove there masculine superioty

ive lost fights before i can handle it in the ring

but i doubt a coward could handle loosing face by being beaten by an old man in front of his mates

there is no honour amongst todays youth

any fight should be considered “Life threatening”

you dont know if the guy is gunna stab you in the face or shoot you

as a person with dependents and responsibilty

its best to avoid conflict

however i dont want to be bullied as an adult either

by some faggy little gang that think they own the surf.

so the only choice i really have is a reliable witness and the courts

( or the local boxing ring)

crispy maybe I should kill the silly handle

and be “hellserious” or “goatman”

Why would you lead on entourage of surfers anywhere in the first place?

Sounds like a dickhead to me.

I dont care if he can surf you just dont do that.

Hi Mick it’s an interesting subject this one, 'cause it demonstrates how the surf culture might be changing as a result of the whole Beginner Boom thing of the past 10 years or so.

“Localism” seems like one of those hard core semi primitive ways of behaving that won’t work in a surfing world increasingly full of surf school graduates and semi-grown-up newbies, who know how to work the rules on land.

There’s parts of the localism code that seem to me like pretty much everyone could do without (ie the bigotry and arrogance) and other parts that seem really original and valuable (ie the respect and the pecking order dynamic which keeps so many lineups relatively peaceful).

Re the surfers who were rude to me at Lunada Bay, it was a weird afternoon, I felt like some of them were just sort of acting out a part, posing as Tough Locals; the only bloke who felt “real” to me seemed like we might have got along well on neutral ground. Still remains the only surf spot I’ve ever been in the whole world where the obvious surf spot code of behavior – kicking back, giving everyone else room, surfing your waves competently etc – just didn’t function for a second.

Gonna be a personal challenge for me if any of 'em show up at one of the spots I belong to…like you want to be nice to people if you’re at the head of the pecking list but it would be an effort not to, err, behave badly.

Pretty much everywhere else seems like good surfers will always kinda rule the roost just out of sheer paddling speed, wave knowledge, confidence, and ability to engender respect from the other surfers in the lineup. That old school hard core attitude grew out of our awe and respect and fear of the ocean and as long as she’s around to kick us into line, there’ll be a bit of Localism too I would think.

Localism is one thing but has anyone ever been surfing some exotic spot when a boat load of guys turn up with a photographer and proceed to snake and drop in on everyone because being “pros” they think they have a right to. Competitiveness is Ok really but dropping in on good surfers and thinking it’s alright because you surf better, especially at a spot where you are not a local, is just being a wanker., it doesn’t matter how much of a pro you are.

Back in the late 90’s some friends of mine were staying on Bawa in the Hinako islands when a boat load of guys turned up headed by Johnny boy Gomes. He paddled over to the line up and told everyone to get out or be beaten up. He was lucky that day as a French guy who’d been out there for ages had a red mist descend, he came in and was about to go out again and shoot Gomes with a Spear gun. He had to be physically restranded by everyone else in the camp. I suppose if you live by the sword you can die by the sword.

Quote:
in my opinion this is nothing wrong with a small fist fight as long as you didn't start it, its a fair fight, and you don't send someone to the hospital. What is a major problem is when people take a small fight to serious and leaves and comes back with a weapon, such as a gun.

I always believe that fighting should be a last resort but if you feel threatened by all means fight, just don’t hospitalize someone or beat the pulp out of the guy.

when you surf try to be a calm person that gives waves and doesn’t drop in on anyone, after all surfing is about fun not who can get the most waves

  • logan

Funny the paradox how resilient bodies are and yet how easy it is to accidently kill someone with your hands much less intentionally. Hit the wrong/right spot at the right angle and “game over”. Permanent injury is much easier. Fights tend to escalate. No way around it. Adrenalin, fear/anger, testosterone–one thing leads to another. Violence begets violence. Look at the middle east; they’ve been at it since Cain and Abel with no let up in sight. Weapons do make it exponentially worse but bare hands will do ya.

During the time of year when there are actually people in the water whom i do not know, i typically surf with at least one surfer i know. When we surf (typically with kooks) we sit on the take off spot and trade off on set waves. at the surfing beach during surfing hours the old guys there know me and let a few waves slip through for me. in the winter in NJ crowds, really? when not at home I let my surfing and paddling speed determine where I sit in the line up.

Quote:

Pretty much everywhere else seems like good surfers will always kinda rule the roost just out of sheer paddling speed, wave knowledge, confidence, and ability to engender respect from the other surfers in the lineup. That old school hard core attitude grew out of our awe and respect and fear of the ocean and as long as she’s around to kick us into line

Well, you kinda cut right to it there…there is a huge lack of awe, respect and fear of the ocean these days. Worse yet, in modern western civilization humans confuse those three terms in regard to other people. Fear is much different than respect when it comes to other people, but many people are so ignorant and uneducated they don’t know the difference.

All recreational violence is total bullshit. You (the editorial “You”, not meant for any posters) may want to mix it up to be a tough guy “local” yokel, but if I don’t then I’m not playing…you are attacking me and anything I do is to defend myself, and I really don’t give one flying fuck if you die. The sooner the better as far as I’m concerned in those situations. And you have no way of knowing who you are attacking, which is why nearly any other avenue of dealing with situations is preferable to squaring off.

Many of you guys don’t live in crowded places…you guys in certain parts of Australia might laugh when you read that but consider this: supposedly 1 out of every 8 people in the U.S. lives in California. There are 300,000,000 people in the U.S. Every beach day is on a low simmer, and the beach isn’t the only place where pressures build…try the roads getting there, the parking, the job, everything else. One needs to consider regional influences of what you read. So much of the litigation takes place in California because of the reasons I outlined, including a judge in the county where I live ordering a guy out of the water for a couple of years after a history of incidents and a serious conviction for an anti-local assault. Typically, the local police found the guy in a soaking wetsuit carrying his board while under sentence, and I believe he got more time.

whats also interesting is the way surfing is now being co-opted into the mainstream of society and that includes mainstream social mores wrt to violence.

Violence would not be considered acceptable at the golf club, the tennis court, the soccer grounds etc etc.

I’ve been working with a fellow from Griffith university Centre for Coastal Management (based on the Gold Coast).

let me tell you that legislators have recreational surfing violence in their sights and some of the plans they have for dealing with it will make your nose hairs curl. Licensing, enforceable codes, cops on jetskis etc etc.

This isn’t some sci-fi look at the future : this is on the table and being discussed by politicians NOW.

Councils worried about duty of care and exposure to litigation are looking to the States and elsewhere for solutions.

Violence at the Superbank is front page news and that makes politicians nervous.

Silly , I agree with you. i have a wife and kid to support…it’s amazing how quickly violence can escalate and as Nels so graphically pointed out when humans are attacked they can quickly turn into killing machines. That is a harsh outcome for a bloke having a bad day who just wanted to ride a couple of waves.

When I see the local areshole paddle out here I usually just paddle in or go somewhere else but if pushed I will use the courts and common law rather than resort to a violent solution. I’ve given alot of thought to that. my daughter doesn’t need her life ruined because her dad couldn’t control himself.

To me localism should imply stewardship of an area : education of visitors who are often ignorant of local respect patterns, protecting an area from external threats such as over-development and pollution, grooming youngsters in local lore and providing an example of firm but fair tactics. For sure , good role models are thin on the ground but they are there.

MooneeMick, from what I understood from the surferspath article some of the shenanigans of the visiting aussies included stealing boards, telling local people they weren’t welcome to surf “their” break and other acts of pure fuckery.

I’ve seen this kind of shit in the third world plenty of times from bitter transplants of below average intelligence. It’s a pretty ugly sight when a couple of Aussie yobbos claim a third world break , take a couple of young local girls as their prize , get a god complex and generally make first class pricks of themselves. Usually , they go one step too far and get run out of town and this is what happened to those guys in the Phillos (from what I understood).

Steve

self regulation is a must

if turned over to the litigious rabble

the whole thing will go to shite

the offensive elements should

be checked as in hockey

without allowing the brazen greed puppies

and barnyard roosters the oppertunity to claim

abuse…

It takes two to tango

in the my wave lineup.

the advisory commitees and ruling bodies

should be made up of serendipitous spirits

with backround and seniority in the line up.

the established system for other disputes

could wreck almost everything while thinking

they were doing a good turn,bless their hearts.

Judge roy bean I hear is out of a job

…ambrose…

nothin’ like an

experienced

hanging Judge.

an the oak tree

on the paddle out spot

isn’t permited a tree house.

Hey Steve, I’ll just say this ,there is always at least two sides to the story. As you said , you got your’s from the article from surfers path, from the guy it was about, he would be totally in the right, would’t he, he wrote it, H.